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 Post subject: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:38 am 
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If these definitions, taken from my book, "Stock Fitter's Bible" are irritating, send an e-mail to rollin@stockfitting.com telling me to get rid of them.

Back-boring/Over-boring: increasing the bore diameter to reduce perceived recoil, improve patterns and increase shot-velocity. Existing guns can be backbored and new guns may be designed with overbored barrels as one of their features. In use, they amount to the same thing

Bore: hole in the barrel through which the shot passes, measured in thousandths of an inch. 12-gauge bores are from .725" to .745" or even larger; nominal is .729".

Break point: point at which a clay target is expected to be broken without rushing the shot

Butt Stock:the portion of the stock behind the receiver/action

Cast: distance the stock angles left (cast on) or right (cast off) from the receiver when viewed from the rear. Its purpose is to allow easier and better horizontal alignment of the master eye with the rib without undue tilting or turning of the head.

There are commonly two cast dimensions; the first is the cast at the heel followed by the cast at the toe, usually, slightly greater. This is done to better align the butt with the pectoral muscle forming the inside of the shoulder pocket.

Chamber: breech end of the barrel into which shells are placed when the gun is "in battery" or ready to fire.

Choke: the decrease in diameter of the bore near the end of the barrel; a constriction. Chokes come in many designs, all of which keep the pattern from expanding as quickly at all yardages.

Comb: The top surface of the stock on which the cheek is placed, either parallel with the barrel or upward-sloping (field stocks) in non (clay) target stocks

Crooked stock: All stocks are crooked to some degree. Many years ago, a crooked stock was one with a drop at the heel dimension exceeding 3"; (some were as much as 4".) Today, with the level of the heel still below that of the bore, stocks remain crooked but far less than those used in the past. It is this feature that causes barrels to rise during recoil.

Drop at the comb: Distance from the rib-line (an imaginary line along the top surface of the rib extending to the end of the stock) down to the comb.

On straight (English) stocks (here defined here as those with a pistol grip but no Monte Carlo notch removed at the rear and usually with an upward sloping comb,) two drops are given. The first drop, where the cheek is placed is the "face drop" at the comb and the second drop dimension is to the top of the recoil pad or butt plate, which is actually the drop at the heel. The difference of the two drops lets you know how steep the comb is on the gun.

On Monte Carlo stocks, the drop at the comb dimension, is the distance from rib down to the front (nose) of the comb. The comb may or may not be parallel with the rib. When the stock does not have a parallel comb, the drop dimension are the "drop at the nose" or front of the comb and the "face drop) at the comb, which is an estimation of the distance from the rib line to the place on the comb where the cheek is likely to be placed.

Drop at the heel: a. Distance form the rib line to the top of the butt plate or the top of the recoil pad (heel)

b. Individual dimension for guns with Monte Carlo stocks: Drop at the comb is the distance from the rib-line down to the front (nose) of the comb. If the comb is parallel with the rib, the specifications will note that the stock has a parallel comb.

Forcing cone: section of the barrel in which the diameter of the chamber holding the shell, tapers over a short distance to the smaller bore diameter. The tapered area in the barrel just forward of the chamber is the forcing cone. 1½” is thought by some to be the ideal length but this can change in the future.

Fore-end: the wood grip attached to the barrel in front of the action or receiver. Fore-ends vary widely in shape from very thin "beaver tail" shapes to much wider and higher shapes that many target shooters prefer.

Form/Style: the complete “set-up” involving stance (foot position), gun mount, body posture including the head and neck, and weight distribution. It is an important rudiment on which to build shooting skills. It also has a major afffect on well fitting stock dimensions.

Gauge: Technically, the number of pure, round, lead balls required to weigh a pound.

Gun-mount: the act of bringing the gun to the shoulder; also the position of the gun on the shoulder along with that of the hands and trigger-arm when ready to call for a target.

Heel: the top/upper surface of the recoil pad or butt plate (and the second drop dimension given for straight stocks).

Length of pull (LOP): the distance from the front center of the trigger curvature back to the vertical center of the recoil pad or butt plate - slightly over 14” on many stocks).

Line-of-sight/Sight-line: an imaginary line from the pupil of the eye to the front bead. It indicates the height of the eye relative to the rib and shows the relationship of the center bead (if one exists) to the front bead or the amount of rib seen (if any). The higher the eye is relative to the rib, the higher the center of the pattern will be above the gun's point of aim.

Monte Carlo stock: a stock that has a “notch” removed at the rear. It exists to position the top of the recoil pad (heel) farther below the comb without increasing the "crookedness"/slope of the stock. Its purpose is to compensate for the length of shooters’ necks.

Palm swell: a bulge on the off side of the grip to fill the palm and allow a more secure hold by the trigger hand making gun mounting easier, more secure and precise.

Pattern: the distribution and quantity of shot, within a 30” circle, from a shell commonly fired from a distance of 40 yards. The choke constriction is the major determinant of a pattern but the selection of reloading components plays a small part as well, especially the hardness (antimony content) of the shot used, which reduces the number of "flyers" or shot pellots flying outside of the pattern.

Forty yards is often used as a basis of comparison but more useful information is gained from patterning a gun at the distance where most game is killed or targets are broken. It is best done to learn the POI (see below).

Pitch: the angle formed by the gun’s barrel or rib and the end of the butt or recoil pad, usually near ninety degrees. In this country pitch is often measured by standing a gun on its recoil pad with the action/receiver in contact with a vertical surface. (For a basis of comparison, a 28-inch barrel length is used.) In Europe, pitch is measured in degrees, which is more accurate and more difficult to determine.

The gun’s pitch is the distance from the end of the barrel (or at the 28-inch point) to the vertical surface. The difficulty of this type of pitch description is that action and receiver length plays a part in the pitch distance, which is usually neutral or negative/positive depending on the definition of "positive" pitch being used. (It's all rather esoteric and describing pitch can be problematic.)

Point of impact (POI): the vertical and horizontal center of the pattern at a given distance, usually 30-35 yards in trap shooting, 21 in skeet, and considerably farther in Sporting Clays. POI is the topic of discussion when someone asks, “Are you shooting where you look?” In other words, “Is your POI what you were expecting?” Guns are said to shoot 50-50, 60-40, 70-30, etc. These numbers refer to the percentages of the pattern above and below a horizontal line through an aiming point usually at the distance at which targets are broken.

Porting: a brake; the creation of holes through which gas escapes in the top half of the barrel near the center or more commonly, near the muzzle. The escaping gas slightly reduces barrel rise during recoil and in so doing, often irritates squad mates with an increased noise level when the ported gun is fired.

Rib-line: Line along the top of the rib extending rearward over the heel from which drops at the comb and heel are measured.

Recoil: Phase one involves the rotation of the gun around it center of gravity; the phase two involves the gun's movement to the rear and the upward pivot of the barrel from the shoulder when the gun's rearward movement is stopped or slowed dramatically by the shoulder.

Shooting Form: The shooting style used by a shooter consisting of the stance or foot placement, the gun mount and the body/head and neck posture used by the shooter.

Shoulder pocket: the depression formed between the shoulder joint and pectoral muscle. It is easier to locate when the elbow is raised so the upper arm is parallel to the ground in trap shooting and nearer 45 degrees for other shooting disciplines.

Sight-line: An imaginary line running from the pupil of the eye to the front bead indicating the position of the eye relative to the rib

Sight picture: the relative position of the front bead and the target at the moment the gun is fired. Swing-speed is important when creating a sight picture as is the distance to and the direction of the target.

Stance: Position of both feet during set-up, prior to calling for a target.

Straight stock: As used here, a stock with a pistol grip but no Monte Carlo notch removed at the rear. (Also a stock with no pistol grip similar to those on old Winchester Model 94s. These were originally designed for double-barreled shotguns with two triggers to allow easier movement of the hand to the other trigger for a second shot. They also offer the choice of barrels to fire first.

Swing speed: the barrel’s rate of movement when overtaking targets. It is most affected by the position of the hand on the fore-end, (towards the rear is faster when the gun is moved incorrectly by the forward hand instead of with body rotation). Swing speed is slowed and more swing precision is gained when the fore-end is held in the hand nearer the front. Swing speed can also be affected by the stance. Wider stances can slow swing speed.

Toe: "Pointed" bottom of the recoil pad opposite the heel. Broad and rounded toes are preferred over more pointed toes.

Wrist: Section of the stock forward of the comb nose.



_________________
Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


Last edited by Rollin Oswald on Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:45 pm, edited 22 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:43 am 
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Thanks Rollin! Not irritating as far as I'm concerned--in fact, I've sent a couple of people who were asking about felt recoil issues to the thread that you and JMCCOYB and Ulysses did on it. Nice to have all this stuff in one place, much appreciated :)

Jeff23


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:44 am 
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Rollin,
Thanks for the post, this will be a big help.
I've made the post sticky so it should be at the top of the forum for a while.

Thanks again.

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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 3
Could you add a description of the differences in the guns for different events, trap, skeet, sporting.


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:44 am 
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Wilmar--

Welcome to shotgunworld-- we're happy to have you as a registered member!

If I may be so bold, may I suggest you follow Rollin's web link to his sale page? He has an excellent downloadable document, which he sells at a ridiculously modest price (especially when you compare it to visiting the gunfitter). We've been lucky in that he does sometimes answer personal or specialized questions, but it would be only fair if we bought his little book on the subject, now that we've gotten him to post so much about gun fit. I hope you'll consider doing so too. :)

Thanks,

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Jeff23
Coalition of Connecticut Sportsmen
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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:37 am 
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WilMar:
Generally speaking, skeet and sporting clays guns shoot closer to their point of aim while trap guns shoot higher due to the faster and always-rising targets.

Skeet and clays guns are more likely to have straight, non Monte Carlo stocks with rising combs similiar to those on field guns and to have shorter barrels to increase the swing speed. Barrels have been getting a little longer in the past few years however, to achieve greater swing smoothness and to promote follow-through. Sporting clays guns are likely to have stocks that are 1/4" to 1/2" shorter.

Jeff:
Thank you for your kind referral. It is sincerely apprecaited.

The "sometimes" answering of questions as you know, is due to the complexity of some of their answers and my wishing to avoid incomplete and as a result, misleading answers.

Rollin
http://stockfitting.virtualave.net/


Last edited by Rollin Oswald on Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:52 pm 
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Yes, I'm well aware of that Rollin. I'm particularly impressed about your various remarks, here and there, about how altering one stock dimension affects all the others. All the more reason, IMHO, for people to buy your book.

And anyway, we can hardly expect you to be on call 24 / 7 to answer gunfitting questions, unless Jay decides to start a gun fit forum and make you moderator. Hey! Not a bad idea . . . Jay, are you listening? :lol:

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Jeff23
Coalition of Connecticut Sportsmen
National Rifle Association


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:52 pm 
Rollin,
Thanks for the info. I have a Beretta 391. The manual says to use a "modified" choke with steel shot. How do I identify a modified or other choke. The chokes supplied with the gun have notches which I assume are the idenitification marks, but there is no explaination of their meaning.

Rich
r1100rmonkey@hotmail.com


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:13 am 
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Rich, you can download a copy of the 391 owners manual at:

http://www.beretta.com/PDF_2002/al391teknys_ingl.PDF

It lists all of the chokes and markings on page 14. You can always print a copy for future reference.


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:31 pm 
Very useful info, thank you. Just fyi, the Porting entry is probably not worded as intended.

...often irritates squad mates with the increased noise level that often irritates squad mates.


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:33 pm 
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Guest:

You're right; it wasn't and I corrected it.

Thank you.

Rollin


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:27 pm
Posts: 271
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Thank you, Rollin Oswald for taking time to educate us who are new to the sport/hobbie of shotgunning. I think that there are a LOT of people (like me) who are hungry for information; people who are trying to get into the sport, or trying to get better at it. And knowing that there are folks like you who love the sport enough to spend your time helping others learn, shows what a wonderful group of people are involved in the shooting sports-- be it on the web, at the range, or in the hunting blinds.

Looking forward to your future posts,
ScottyO


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:24 pm 
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THANKS! Very useful, makes a handy guide.

Ron


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2004 5:33 pm 
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Thank you all for your kind remarks.

Rollin


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:30 pm 
How about barrel length? Is this measured from the tip of the barrel to the brass head of the shell? Or, from the tip of the barrel to the end of the chamber? Does this mean that a 30" barrel shotgun with a 3-1/2" chamber have an overall shorter or the same length barrel than a 30" barrel shotgun with a 2-3/4" chamber? What about extended chokes? Are they measured as part of the "length of barrel"?


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:08 pm 
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The barrel length as I understand it is measured with the gun unloaded but in battery (closed as if ready to fire) a dowel is dropped down the barrel until it hits the face of where the firing pin comes out.

I have been wrong before.

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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:05 pm 
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Yep, jlp hit the nail on the head.

"The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable."


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 Post subject: re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:05 pm 
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Quote:
Porting: a brake; the creation of holes through which gas escapes in the top half of the barrel near the center or more commonly, the end. The escaping gas reduces barrel rise during recoil and in so doing, often irritates squad mates with an increased noise level when the gun is fired.


that made me laugh somethin' fierce...

gotta love the blast!


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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:18 am 
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No, It was a very important redundancy from our department of redundancy department.......


..............often irritates squad mates with the increased noise level that often irritates squad mates.


I think you had it perfectly right the first time.....Art

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 Post subject: Re: (Hopefully) useful shotgun definitions.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:25 pm
Posts: 38
morning:
I'm new to this location and to this setup.
new to reloading SG so I have a Q when reading a shell
so you can LOL if you wish to.

Q...how do you read a SG Shell...the ones I have follows
2 3/4-1 1/8- 8 Light......3-1 1/8- 7.5 - heavy

can some one help me...thank you




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