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 Post subject: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:28 am 
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Hi Benjj:

Why don't we see more autoloaders in use in Europe for sporting purposes?

John




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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 1:33 am 
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Ben will correct me if I'm wrong but in England repeaters are banned. Only doubles are legal.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:26 am 
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In most of the EEC autoloaders are allowed for shooting clays but not for hunting. This is to preserve the game. There could be special allowances made in certain areas.

The problem is with clays you very rarely get a chance for more than two, aimed shots so people tend to use o/u.

As far as I know until a few years ago you could hunt with autoloaders in the UK. I am not aware of a law change.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:06 am 
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Location: England
Hello all,

Well its a trick question. Autoloaders (and pumps) are not banned at all in the UK, however, our laws do stipulate that they cannot hold more than 3 shells at any one time. We are starting to see more and more Semi's at the clay ranges, but still in the minority. I once tried to break it down in a previous post what sort of guns you would expect to see at a UK clay range, it was something like:

Out of 100 people you would see: 85 O/U, 10 SxS, 5 Semi Auto, 0 Pumps.

One other real point to note is that in the game field. We are still in the 'dark ages' over here, with game shooting still being the preserve of the wealthy man. SxS are the 'gun of choice' when shooting driven pheasant and particularly, wild grouse. Many shoot owners and game keepers will simply not allow the use of Semis or pumps on their land. The classic lines of the O/U have only really been acceptable to use for game shooting for the last 10 years or so.

Thanks for the questions, lets keep them coming and make the 'England' Forum the place to be!!

Ben


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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:40 am 
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In the UK in certain areas you might be able to shoot pigeons that are damaging crops with the farmers blessings.

However a lot of the farmers caught on to this and have lately been asking for money.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:50 am 
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dks is spot on, nearly all the farmers have cottoned on and are now charging for all shooting on their property. It started off you getting charged 'per bird' as has always been the case with driven pheasant shooting over here. However, recently due to lower numbers the farmers usually charge by the day, regardless of how many birds go to the big nest in the sky. This can be fine on a day with plenty of action, but when there is nothing to be had can seem a bit of a rip-off.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:58 am 
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Where I live in East Sussex we can still shoot all year for a moderate fee say less than £100. I paid £60 last year for a half gun in a small DIY wild bird shoot which gives me 300 acres of pest shooting, crow, rabbits, pigeons and fox plus duck shoots twice a week in season on a fed flight pond. Next year I am invited to become a full gun which gives me the game bird shooting on all 300 acres, which without the pest control is pointless due to it being wild birds.
Still have lots of 60 + acre arable fields from the same estate to shoot pigeon over when the crops allow.
I use a pump or side by side whenn doing that or take two guns. I have a Sjorgen autoloader from about 1903 and that goes clay shooting once a year, just to see everyones faces!

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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:36 am 
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Tim:

Cool. Do you have a photo of your Sjorgen? Can't say as I've ever seen one before.

John


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 Post subject: Re: PHOTO OF SJORGEN
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:32 pm 
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I'll e mail one to you if you like, I can't post pics as I don't do the web space thingy.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:41 pm 
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Try posting using the SGW "Album" link at the top of the page; it's easy and puts the JPEG up on the website album for easy viewing.

JW


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 Post subject: Re: Pics of sjogren
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:37 am 
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Thanks for that they are in the shotgun pictures album.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:24 pm 
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VERY cool! That's a gun I'd like to see in person someday.

JW


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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:54 pm 
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Lots around in the 60s and 70s but when the 88 act changed shotguns to a 2 mag cap limit lots dissappeared. No one I knew had one but it turns out they probably predate the Auto 5. I had pictures of a damascus barreled spender pump 18something. If I can find them I'll post. The sjogren has a diet problem, a little fussy over what she eats or rather ejects and it is in need of a bit of work. When that breech flies back at your face the first time it is awesome to see the expressions on faces.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:57 am 
Why not more autoloaders?

To answer that you fist must understand the type of shooting we do in the UK (not just England). Most Pheasant shooting is driven, were beaters drive or beat a patch of wood with the intention of putting the birds over the line of guns. SA are usually not allowed as it's not easy for the neighbouring gun to see whether the gun is loaded or not. Also if the shooting is taking place in a woodland the empty shells will be thrown into the undergrowth never to be retrieved.

SA's are used mainly for wildfowling or pigeon decoying. On our shotgun certificate a SA can only hold three shells. A firearms cert is needed for any further capacity (hard to obtain).

Only in the past 20 odd years there has been an acceptance of the OU on game shoots.

Gameshooting in the UK was tarditionally a preserve of the upper classes but is now widely available to everyone depending on the depth of your pocket.

In my cabinet I have three guns. A beretta 301 SA, Beretta 686E and A Beretta s687. I use the 301 for pigeons and wildfowl, the 686 for clays and the 687 for game.


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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders? Continental situation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:08 pm 
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Location: The Netherlands (Europe)
Hi there,

Good to see some shotgunners more close to home.
Here in The Netherlands SA's are allowed for hunting, but with a "2+1" shot capacity like in the UK. Germany has the same rule, I'm not sure about France and the Mediterranean countries, they tend to be more liberal.

If you show up at a shooting range with an SA or pump you're considered a danger for the same reasons as mentioned before. When an OU or SbS is open, it's safe, right? But showing up with an SbS will result in questions like "brought your grandfather's gun?". Even though a Holland&Holland would be worth more than most of these people's cars!

There are practical reasons too, but that is a matter of preference. I use a Beretta 686L Mobilchoke, 12G 3" mag for hunting. Mostly duck, geese and hare and some pigeon in my case. I find it helpful to be able to switch between barrels for sake of a more suitable choke. And for Gees I use the mags.
Mind you that lead is banned here for over a decade so I use steel for all my hunting and have to compensate for the volume. Bismuth is too expensive and other alternatives are even more expensive.

Having said that, I just bought a Franchi autoloader from my hunting buddy. Why? To teach my son shooting a shotgun with less recoil, and as a gadget for geese.

You are pretty blessed in the UK when it comes to the cost of hunting by the way. It is way more expensive here, the rule of supply and demand works way too good! On top of that, we have stricter legislation, a powerful anti hunting lobby and what have you. If the pressure raises any further, I am considering migrating to the UK.

Cheers mates,

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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:51 am 
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Semi Automatics are quite popular here in Norway.Both on the Trap range and out in the feild.

You are not limited in magazine capacity,a Shotgun is a Shotgun as long as the Barrel is more that 40cm long.If its shorter then its a Pistol.

SxS Shotguns are not popular due in the main to their unsuitability for Steel shot.Pump actions and single Barrels are the least popular but you see a few about.

We have to use Steel or Bismuth at the ranges or out in the Feild,however you can use Lead if you are practicing for the Olympics (isn't that generous of them).


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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:26 am 
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Actually we are not limited to 2+1 capacity shotguns in the UK at all, I live in England and own a 10+1 Pump action. They are just a lot harder to acquire as you need a section 1 firearms licence, which I own for practical shot-gunning. However I can also use this on a clay range, and now that I had permission to shoot on a 100 acre piece of land, I will seem be able to hunt too with it, however due to UK laws, you cannot shoot most birds with a section 1 shotgun.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not more autoloaders?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
You can have up to 7 shot magazines on auto shotguns in NZ....there is no mag limit for pumps.I would say the vast majority of new shotguns sold here are auto's...as most use them for waterfowl and they seem the most suitable for this use,especially with steel shot which is required if shooting over water.




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