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 Post subject: Isaac Hollis & Sons pinfire Value?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:08 pm 
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I own an Isaac Hollis & Sons pinfire double. I'd say it is in probably 80% condition. I can't seem to find much information on the gunmaker or the gun itself. Any help as to what the value of this hundred year old shotgun is, would be greatly appreciated. Here are some pictures hopefully they help...

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Hollis & Sons pinfire Value?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:15 am 
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Neat old gun! I cannot help much but here are some clues:

Crossed scepters with crown and B,C & P = Indicates a proof of four times the normal load (BP, of course).

Crossed scepters with crown and V = indicates the inspection mark.

The above marks were once a private proof system but were Birmingham proofs between about 1813 and 1904.

Script BP under crown = Indicates Birmingham proof house.

The number 4 between the barrels = Indicates a double barreled shotgun intended for use with shot ( Classs 4).

I am guessing that the numbers 13 twice on each barrel indicates that the bore (gauge) is 13br and that the barrels are not choked.

Letter S = indicates the the barrels were serviceable at time of proof.

It is not much but I hope that it helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Hollis & Sons pinfire Value?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:23 am 
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I have a Hollis catalogue dating sometime between 1879 and 1881. The address given is 5 to 11 Weaman Row, Birmingham with a London office and showroom at 6 Great Winchester Street.
The full catalogue shows many hammer guns, a quite fancy 'Anson & Deeley' Boxlock ejector, and even muzzle loaders but no pin fires. I think the pinfire was quite a shortlived thing although you can still find cartridges for them !.

I have tried to add a scan of one page but it aint working ! - I will have another attempt later - must be something to do with the size or format of my pictures :?


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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Hollis & Sons pinfire Value?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:13 am 
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Still no catalogue scan but I keep trying :mrgreen:
Your tube marking of 13 will in fact refer to the bore size - 13 equates to .710 Inch. (that was as measured at 9 Inches from the breech).
There was no Choke as such in Pinfire times - Greener or possibly Pape invented that around 1874 and your gun predates that by a fair bit. Its getting on for 150 years old or thereabouts now :D
Had a quick look on the www at pinfires in the USA and they seem to be on at the market at around $5000 or more for a 'name' item. Thats asking price and I doubt if many are sold for that kind of money.


Last edited by Sans Peur on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Hollis & Sons pinfire Value?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:52 am 
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There is evidence on the internal workings of the gun that suggest that it was once color case hardened. Would paying to have the metal/wood restored be a waste of money? Would it decrease the value? Thanks for all your help...

Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Hollis & Sons pinfire Value?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:11 am 
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Your gun would almost certainly have been colour hardened originally.
Do not even think about having it re-coloured, it will knock down the value, cost a lot of money, and lastly look totally out of place.
The other do NOT, from a collecting point of view, is polishing the action and lock plates. That again will reduce the value. Any little rust spots on barrels or action, can be (lightly) rubbed down with some oil and 00 grade steel wool. Thats all I would do to it.
One last comment, I would guess that your gun was probably made after 1868? as the underlever locking mechanism (Jones Screw Grip) was patented around then.


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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Hollis & Sons pinfire Value?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:05 am 
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I believe that the Jones Under Lever (Jones Screw Grip) was patented in 1859.

I have a Joseph Lang completed March 6, 1866 that has a Jones Under Lever action.


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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Hollis & Sons pinfire Value?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:13 am 
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Probably right with the Screw Grip patent - I was guessing at 1868 :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Isaac Hollis & Sons pinfire Value?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:30 am 
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Thanks, Sans Peur, for the info on the 13 stamps. I guess that I wasn't too far off.

I looked up the service load (1887) for a 13br with 2 3/4 inch chambers. It was 89gr of FFg and 1 1/8oz of shot. Your gun may have shorter chambers and use lighter loads.



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