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 Post subject: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:32 pm 
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I've just purchased this gun at an auction and I'm trying to get a rough estimate on manufacture date and value. I'm working on some good pictures of the barrel and action stamps. Serial # is 146xxx. Was hoping Sauerfan or someone else could give me an approx age on this old gal.




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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:10 am
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Location: Hannover, Germany
Hi kygun,

your Sauer was made around 1910.

Regards

Martin

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Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Thanks Sauerfan. Been doing some research on these guns and I'm becoming a fan as well. Here are a few pics of proof marks. What do they tell you (beside the fact that it needs a good cleaning)?

Anyone have an estimated value?

http://www.bardstown.com/~learjg/Sauer.htm


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:29 pm 
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Hi kygun,

thanks fort he photos. It’s a model I (1), btw. The proofs are standard German proofs of the time:

Crown/S : proof for shotgun barrels (more precisely: proof for smooth barrels)
Crown/W: W = Würgebohrung = Choke
Crown/U: U = Untersuchungsbeschuss = Final (second) proof with black powder.
Imperial German eagle: first or pre proof
16 inside circle: chamber calibre, i. e. 16 gauge and 2 9/16” (65 mm) chamber length
16: gauge of the barrel

As there is no crown/N present, this gun only was proofed with black powder, but not with smokeless powder.

The large royal crown isn’t a proof, but a Sauer marking for excellent barrels (found on literally all Sauer shotgun barrels of the time). The wild man with the club is Sauer’s trademark.

Regards

Martin

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Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:04 am 
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That verifies most of my research. I wasn't sure if the symbol above the U was a crown. Any idea what the 282 -P under the serial # on the barrel means? Also, there is a letter (J or F) on the underside of the rib. Thanks for your expertise.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:52 am 
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Hi Jeff,

no, I don't know the significane of 282-P. Such number/letter combinations are quiet normal on Sauer barrels, so I assume, it's an internal factory assembly number or the like. And the script "L" (looks like a script L to me) is probably an internal worker's marking or the like. Something like that can be found on literally any Sauer gun (no matter, if long gun or pistol) of the time.

Regards

Martin

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Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:16 pm 
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Thanks for your info sauerfan. I've emailed GGCA as well and I'll let you know their response. Don't really know what to do with her now as I bought it for a unique field gun. Got a buyer the same day I bought it but wanted to figure out what I had. Thank you very much for your time and knowledge.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Here is the response I recieved from the German Gun Collectors Assoc.

Hi! I'm Jim Cate, Sauer consultant for the German Gun Collectors Association. Thanks for your inquiry! Your Sauer was made during March 1912. The Crown W proof indicates your gun is choked. I would imagine it is Improved Cylinder and Modified. The large Crown stamp indicates excellent materials and workmanship were used in making your gun. It is a Model 2 having the Greener crossbolt system. The Model 1 doublebarrels have only a 'Doll's head' that fits into the receiver when the barrels are closed. You should have the chambers checked by a qualified gunsmith, but there is a strong probability the chambers are 60mm (2 1/2") in depth. Ammo can be purchased at most good gunshops. Hope this helps! Please see the attachments I am sending. JIM


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:03 am 
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And here is his response to my question concerning the lack of a nitro stamp.

The Crown N nitro proof, along with the NITRO stamp were used after April, 1912. There were many companies, including Sauer, that continued to also use the Crown B (preliminary barrel proof), Crown U (final barrel proof) as well as the Crown G (rifled barrel), etc. until January 15, 1940 when all Proofhouses had to use the Eagle N as the Nitro proof. There will be no problem firing your Sauer, but do make sure of the chamber length. A 2 3/4 shell will fit into a 2 1/2 chamber, but then when it is fired the forward portion of the shell cannot open completely. That puts a lot of unnecessary pressure on the walls of the barrels. I note that I told you 60mm were 2 1/2 chambers. That was in error. The 2 1/2 inch chambers are 65mm in depth; and the 2 3/4" chambers are 70mm in depth. Sorry about the mistake. If it were my old Sauer I would just shoot the 2 1/2" shells in it and not worry about anything. If you have an interest in German guns you would enjoy being a member of our organization. Regards, JIM


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:28 pm 
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Hi kygun,

thanks for telling me, what my very good friend Jim told you. The problem is: there are no records of guns with lower serial numbers than 200,000 left at the Suhl archive. Jim knows that exactly, as we both discovered the records with SN 200,000 and higher at our visit at the Suhl archive. So, guns with lower SNs (like yours) can only be guessed regarding the manufacturing date. There are some benchmarks (like Sauer period invoices including a date and a SN) - but no exact database. Anyway, that's just a "sophisticated" point of view between Jim and me. In general (90% and more) we don't have a different opinion.

And: your gun has 65 mm chambers = 2 9/16". No doubt.

Regards

Martin

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Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:23 pm
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I have a 16 gauge J. P. Sauer & Son (Sohn) serial # 169180. I inherited it from my grandfather. Can anyone tell me when it was made and what the value may be. Has the crown/S marking. Beautiful filligree of quail just forward of the trigger guard and it is stamped J. P. Sauer & Son, not Sohn. Also stamped "Made in Prussia"
tprr0997


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:21 am 
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Hi tprr0997,

your Sauer was made around 1911. It is one of those exported to the US. Only these have the "Sauer & Son" and "Prussia" inscription.

Regards

Martin

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Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:23 pm
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Thanks Martin,

Are you certain that it is that old? I was guessing 1930's. Is it worth anything? it is an excellent quail gun.


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:32 am 
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Location: Hannover, Germany
Yep, I'm certain, +/- 1 year. Value can't be determined without having seen the gun. I any case, these with "Sauer & Son" plus "Prussia" are rarer than the one with the normal German inscription.

Regards

Martin

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Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:23 pm
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Spectacular! Thank you........It is in pristine shape except for the stock. I had a new one made 20 years ago.....it looks amazing, but not the original........I will post a photo soon.....Thanks again for your help.
tprr0997


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:51 am 
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Dear sauerfan,

I am attempting to identify a shotgon for a firend. It is a 16ga JP sauer sxs, with double triggers,internal hammers, and is stamped krupp-laufstahl. Serial Number reads 306XXX. If you could tell me the year of manufacture and any other usefull information i would be very greatfull,

Thank you for your time and assistance,
Bones 42


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:12 am 
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Location: Hannover, Germany
Hi Bones42,

provided, it's a pre-war gun, it should have been made around 1940. But you can check yourself: look on the watertable (underside) of the barrels where all the proof marks are. There should be a three or four digit number in the field of the proof markings, like

1239 (= Dec. 1939)
340 (= March 1940)

Anything like this present?

Regards

Martin

_________________
Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:45 am
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thank you for your help,

I am unable to locate these proofs on the barrel as the firearm does bear much surface rust. There are several other proofs that are visible including the W (for choke i belive) The signiture crown, a set of 16s, the word nitro, and what apperears to be a U. It is quite possible that it may be obsucred by rust, but i am reluctant to remove it due to the possible adverse effects that refinishing my have on the value.

Thank you again for your consideration in this matter,
Bones 42


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:05 pm
Posts: 1
Nice to get so much information on the JP.Sauer & Sohn shotguns.
I have a 16ga tree barrel one with the serial # 109053.
Please give me all the information You have on it.
If someone like some pictures let me know.
Regards

R.Pinto


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 Post subject: Re: J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl 16 ga SxS Hammer gun
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:42 am
Posts: 3
That is cool info man! Hey i also have a question for you sauerfan, I have a J.P Sauer side by side with external hammers and the serial number is 117762 it has the double triggers and a 28 inch barrel any idea on the year it was made?




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