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 Post subject: JP Sauer 12 guage shotgun questions serial #60530
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:08 pm
Posts: 5
Trying to find out some info on a JP Sauer & Sohn, Suhl shotgun. I will post some pictures tommorow.
The shotgun was brought back from Germany after World War 2, but other then that i am not sure of anything on this.
Serial Number 60530 all parts match
12 guage shotgun double barrel, internal hammers
Marked DRGM17913 on the side panel.
Each barrel is marked Special Geiveher Igul Stahl Fried Krupp Essen

I would like to find out approximate age of manufacter and model.

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Thanks for all the help

Chris




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 Post subject: Re: JP Sauer 12 guage shotgun questions serial #60530
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2839
The barrel markings I.D. the manufacturer of the barrel steel as Krupp Werks in Essen. Your photos show that the gun is a sidelock. As a G.I. bring-back, the gun obviously predates the last great international misunderstanding. To I.D. the model and pinpoint a year of manufacture, we'll have to rely upon Sauerfan and others more knowledgeable about pre-war Sauers.

Recent asking prices for pre-war Sauer sidelocks have been in the US$2,500.and up range.

You may also want to post this enquiry on the SGW German Gun forum.

DF

Montani Semper Liberi


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 Post subject: Re: JP Sauer 12 guage shotgun questions serial #60530
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:08 pm
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if you click on the pics they will be much larger


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 Post subject: Re: JP Sauer 12 guage shotgun questions serial #60530
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:10 am
Posts: 557
Location: Hannover, Germany
Hi Chris,

what you have is nothing else but the best shotgun model Sauer ever made. The sidelocks are superb and the best ever designed (for my opinion) – at least, much better than the H&H sidelocks. Take the locks out and have a look inside…..

Now: the gun hasn’t a model number. It was called by sauer simply the Selbstspannerflinte”” what’s a generic term simply meaning “hammerless”. Age isn’t easy to determine, as there are no records left for guns made prior to 1914.

At least, the DRGM number is a help. Said DRGM (something like a patent – not the same, but comparable) was registered in September 1893. Your gun was made after said date. As the validation period for a DRGM was only six years and as it wasn’t allowed to mark a product with DRM after expiration of a DRGM, your gun was made before 1899. Based on SN studies I tend to believe, the gun was made more towards the earlier border line.

Regards

Martin

_________________
Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: JP Sauer 12 guage shotgun questions serial #60530
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:53 am
Posts: 278
Location: Northern Europe
Superb Sauer side lock...

Sauerfan,

I think, my question for you will be interesting for the author of this topic, too...

I have heared minds about legendary Sauer side lock, which are much better than Holland&Holland locks. What enables them better or best ? Are they more realiable ? Better working than regular Holland & Holland locks..?

12 in circle means that this gun is 12 gauge and has 2 1/2 (65mm) chammbers. Is it possible to shoot this shotgun with nowadays 2 1/2 loads from a shop ?

And... How much itbe worth in Europe, looking in its condition..? It is very interesting... :roll:

_________________
Barba non facit Philosophum


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 Post subject: Re: JP Sauer 12 guage shotgun questions serial #60530
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:10 am
Posts: 557
Location: Hannover, Germany
OK, let's have a look inside:

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Do you see it? I mean: why is this lock technically better than an H&H sidelock?

As far a modern loads are concerned: this gun is blackpowder proofed only (at least, I can't make out Nitro proofs). I wouldn't recommend shooting other loads than blackpowder loads. But of course, the owner is free to do what he wants.

Finally: I don't answer value questions. Simply, 'cause it's like looking in a crystal ball.

Regards

Martin

_________________
Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: JP Sauer 12 guage shotgun questions serial #60530
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:08 pm
Posts: 5
I am very curious about value now, is there an expert in the US hopefully in Wisconsin area that i could take this to so i can make sure its properly insured. I dont plan on selling, it so the auction route isnt really an option.

Sauerfan the gun doesnt have nitro proof marks i did look very hard for those and when i couldnt find them and the serial number and thats when i thought it might be something special.

thank you all for all the help.

chris




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