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 Post subject: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:32 am 
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How can you tell if a gun barrell is made from either damascus or twisted steel. The gun I am refering to is a worthington challenger manufactered by Crescent for H.D.Folsom .




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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:06 pm 
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1 test u can do is the following.

Take some steel wool and shine up a spot on the barrels,
preferably under the the forestock,make sure its free of oil and grease,then use some household vinegar,and swab the area, the damascus or twist pattern will show through,sometimes its a floral looking pattern or a striped looking design,

Also if the pattern isnt visable, the proof marks under the barrels and the reciever should tell what the gun was proofed for,either smokeless or black powder use


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:12 pm 
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as far as the proof marks go let us know what markings are on the gun , we here at shotgun world can try and identify whether its proofed for black powder or smokless


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:00 pm 
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If it is a Cresent,it probably won't have definative proof marks. The barrels may be marked "Fluid Steel" however. This would indicate a non-Damascus barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:14 pm 
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Nor will it have be likely to have provisional proofs either since Crescents were manufactured here.


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:33 pm 
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The easiest way to tell, if it is a Crescent, is to read the top of the barrels.
One barrel will say Genuine [Armory, Damascus, Laminated](one of these) and Steel.
The other barrel will generally say Choke Bored.


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:26 am 
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I looked on the gun, there were no markings visable on the barrell, in fact the only markings are the worthington challenger stamp on the reciever, a serial number on the trigger guard, and some numbers on the inside of the forestock. I know it shoots 16 gauge shells as I have used it for rabbits and such since i was 12. i was asking about the barrels because I was wanting to shoot slugs through it and the warning on the box said not to use it on damascus or twisted steel barrels.


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:26 pm 
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You positive it's a Crescent? I've got references that also state that Iver Johnson made Challengers for Geo. Worthington.

I'd also like to point out that virtually all modern shotshells carry the warning about Twist and Damascus barrels, slugs won't create much, if any, more pressure than shotshells.

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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:29 am 
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[quote="MarlandS"]You positive it's a Crescent? I've got references that also state that Iver Johnson made Challengers for Geo. Worthington.

It is a worthington, the side of the reciever is stamped Worthington Challanger. I know nothing of the difference, just that it is an old gun, how old i dont know.


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:55 pm 
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I think a better answer can be provided if a more compekte description is provided including gauge, barrel length, serial number, whether a single or a double, whether exposed hammer or hammerless, whether a sidelock or a boxlock and all markings anywhere on the gun exactly as they appear.


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:42 am 
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Well I broke down and took the barrel to a local gun smith who looked at it for 2 min and told me it was fluid steel so I am goos to go slug hunting for hog and deer down here in soggy New Orleans :D


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:59 am 
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Did he also check the chamber legnth? It may have short chambers. Also, some of those old guns wee not made to handle the pressures of modern loads. Shot shell ammo is made for them,even 2 1/2" & 2 9/16" but I am not sure of a source for slugs. Cabela's carries some low pressure ammo.


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:03 am 
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I have always usedmodern ammo for it, it will hold a 2 3/4 inch shell, I have just never fired a slug thought it, and read the warning on the box about shooting slugs through damascus barrels.


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:01 am 
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You can't tell if it's a short chambered gun by putting a modern shotshell in it. A loaded shotshell will usually be shorter than the old short chambers. Unfolded though it would be 2 3/4 inches, the trouble comes when that extra half inch unfolds into the forcing cone and can't open all the way. It creates a pressure spike which, with birdshot may or may not be too high since the shot can move to accomodate it. The slug may not be so forgiving.

All I'm saying is, with old guns be careful, lot's of changes have happened over the years. Most manufacturers prior to WWII made their 16 ga guns with short chambers.

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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:04 am 
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How would I go about checking for that?


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 Post subject: Re: damascus or twisted steel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:43 pm 
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That gunsmith should have a guage for it.



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