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 Post subject: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Information
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Information regarding H&D Folsom, Crescent Fire Arms Co., and the many tradename guns they produced and marketed may be found here. A partial list of tradename guns from the H&D Folsom Catalog No. 31 1929-1930 courtesy of David Noreen

Image

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id ... GIhfguSXXQ

http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/20091267

PLEASE NOTE: THE SAME TRADE NAMES may be found on single and double barrel shotguns manufactured by Crescent, Savage Arms, Harrington & Richardson, W.H. Davenport, Hopkins and Allen, J. Stevens, Iver Johnson or in Belgium (but will carry Belgian proof marks).
If you would like to have a tradename gun identified, please start a separate thread, document the name exactly as it appears on the sideplate, and post full size up close images like this

Image


Crescent Fire Arms Co. Shotgun Dates of Production

Crescent Fire Arms Co. production records do not exist, and are believed to have been destroyed as part of World War II paper drives following the dissolution of Crescent-Davis Arms Corporation, Norwich, Conn. by J. Stevens Arms Co. in 1935.
Joseph T. Vorisek’s estimated Dates of Manufacture were published in The Breech Loading Shotgun In America 1865 to 1940, but appears to contains errors in the production dates for the various named Hammerless Double models based on available H&D Folsom catalogs which, for the most part, were numbered but not dated.

Total production numbers are based on Vorisek’s estimates, and yearly estimates do not take into account the fluctuations in production after the “Panic of 1907”, the flood of cheap Belgian imports after repeal of the McKinley Tariff in 1912, during the First World War, or after the Stock Market Crash of 1929.

These numbers also apply to the hundreds of Tradename guns produced by Crescent and sold by Folsom.


The Model 0 (Armory Steel), 2 (Twist) & 3 (Damascus) Hammer Double was introduced in 1897 and the Model 0 remained in production until about 1931 with serial numbers from 001 to 630,000 or about 18,500 per year.
Early models were marked “H&D FOLSOM ARMS CO. N.Y.U.S.A.
Catalog No. 11 c. 1915 labeled the hammer double “American Gun Co., Machine Made Hammer Gun”.

No. 2 with "Genuine Twist Barrels, specially bored for Smokeless or Black Powder."

Image

In 1924 they were called “Crescent Fire Arms Co.” guns.
It is likely that production was much less toward the end of the series.
1897 – 001 to 18,500
1898 – 18,501 to 37,000
1899 – 37,001 to 55,500
1900 – 55,501 to 74,000
1901 – 74,001 to 92,500
1902 – 92,501 to 111,000
1903 – 111,001 to 129,500
1904 – 129,501 to 148,000
1905 – 148,001 to 166,500
1906 – 166,501 to 185,000
1907 – 185,001 to 203,500
1908 – 203,501 to 222,000
1909 – 222,001 to 240,500
1910 – 240,501 to 259,000
1911 – 259,001 to 277,500
1912 – 277,501 to 296,000
1913 – 296,001 to 314,500
1914 – 314,501 to 333,000
1915 – 333,001 to 351,500
1916 – 351,501 to 370,000
1917 – 370,001 to 388,500
1918 – 388,501 to 390,350
1919 – 390,351 to 408,850
1920 – 408,851 to 427,350
1921 – 427,351 to 445,850
1922 – 445,851 to 464,350
1923 – 464,351 to 482,850
1924 – 482,851 to 501,350
1925 – 501,351 to 519,850
1926 – 519,851 to 538,350
1927 – 538,351 to 556,850
1928 – 556,851 to 573,350
1929 – 573,351 to 593,850
1930 – 593,851 to 612,350
1931 – 612,351 to 630,000

Small bore hammer doubles were made between 1910 and 1932:

Image

Model 28 28 gauge - 1910 to 1927,
Model 44 44/40 & .44XL c. 1910 to 1915,
Model 44 “Midget Field” .410 - 1915 to 1927,
Model 44 Improved .410 bore - 1927 to 1932.
Estimated production 36,000 or about 1,600 yearly.
1910 – 001 to 1,600
1911 – 1,601 to 3,200
1912 – 3,201 to 4,800
1913 – 4,801 to 6,400
1914 – 6,401 to 8,000
1915 – 8,001 to 9,600
1916 – 9,601 to 11,200
1917 – 11,201 to 12,800
1918 – 12,801 to 14,400
1919 – 14,401 to 16,000
1920 – 16,001 to 17,600
1921 – 17,601 to 19,200
1922 – 19,201 to 20,800
1923 – 20,801 to 22,400
1924 – 22,401 to 24,000
1925 – 24,001 to 25,600
1926 – 25,601 to 27,200
1927 – 27,201 to 28,800
1928 – 28,801 to 30,400
1929 – 30,401 to 32,000
1930 – 32,001 to 33,600
1931 – 33,601 to 35,200
1932 – 35,200 to 36,000

The Crescent made Folsom Arms Co. “Knickerbocker” Hammerless No. 6 (Armory Steel), No. 7 (Twist), and No. 8 (Damascus) were listed from 1904 to about 1910, then the “Knickerbocker Improved” with coil spring locks until about 1916.
Catalog No. 18 c. 1921 listed the "American Gun Co. No. 6 Knickerbocker" with the earlier 'V-shaped main springs'. "No. 6 Peerless (The Old Knickerbocker Improved)" without cocking indicators were made c. 1916-1925.

Image

The serial numbers for the “Knickerbocker” and “Peerless” hammerless doubles starts with serial number 001 in 1904 and runs up to 448,000 through 1925 at a rate of about 20,400 guns a year. It is likely that production numbers were less during and immediately after World War I, and in 1925 after the “Empire” hammerless was introduced.
1904 - 001 to 20,400
1905 - 20,401 to 40,800
1906 - 40,801 to 61,200
1907 – 61,201 to 81,600
1908 – 81,601 to 102,000
1909 – 102,001 to 122,400
1910 – 122,401 to 142,800
1911 – 142,801 to 163,200
1912 – 163,201 to 183,600
1913 – 183,601 to 204,000
1914 – 204,001 to 224,400
1915 – 224,401 to 244,800
1916 – 244,800 to 265,200
1917 – 265,201 to 285,600
1918 – 285,601 to 306,000
1919 – 306,001 to 326,400
1920 – 326,401 to 346,800
1921 – 346,801 to 367,200
1922 – 367,201 to 387,600
1923 – 387,601 to 408,000
1924 through 1925 – 408,001 to 448,000

In 1925 the Empire” No. 60 appeared in Catalog No. 23. The “New Empire” No. 88 and No. 9 were listed in Catalog No. 27 in 1929.
The “Empire” and “New Empire” serial numbers were 001 in 1925 to 112,000 in 1933, or about 14,000 guns/year. Existing stock of “Empire” guns may have been sold as late as 1935. Guns stamped “Springfield by J. Stevens Arms Co.” exist and are thought to have been made using remaining parts after the assets of Crescent-Davis Arms Corp. were moved from Norwich to Chicopee Falls in late 1935.
Production was likely much less toward the end of the series.
1925 – 001 to 14,000
1926 – 14,001 to 28,000
1927 – 28,001 to 42,000
1928 – 42,001 to 56,000
1929 – 56,001 to 70,000
1930 – 70,001 to 84,000
1931 – 84,001 to 98,000
1932 through 1935 – 98,001 to 112,000

The No. 66 - 410 bore “Quail Model” was made about 1920 to 1932 and Vorisek included the SNs with the “Empire” hammerless.

Image

Estimating manufacture dates for the “Victor” single barrel variants (both raised and flat frame models) is problematic. Joseph Vorisek based his numbers on the belief that more than 900,000 were produced between 1897 and 1932. The serial numbers for the Davenport Model Empire State Goose Guns may also be part of the series. The output from the Crescent factory (both Victor and tradename) would then be about 26,000 guns yearly over 35 years. Vorisek estimated 21,000 guns/year.
As a rough guide, one could divide a single barrel serial number by 26,000 and add that number to 1897. For example, serial number 70,000 divided by 26,000 (or 21,000) = 2.7 + 1897 = the later part of 1899.

Image



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Last edited by Drew Hause on Wed May 13, 2015 7:42 pm, edited 22 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:29 am 
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I would like to clear up a couple of misconceptions if I may. H & D Folsom of New York City did not make guns They sold them. H & D Folsom was a very large retail and wholesale sporting goods dealer, an importer and distributor of firearms. H & D Folsom owned Crescent Fire Arms Company of Norwich,CT (1892 to 1930+) They owned Crescent from 1893 until they sold Crescent to the Savage Arms Company in 1930. Crescent was the maker of all the guns. Since Folsom owned Crescent they could and did claim in their catalog that they made the guns. However all the manufacturing took place in the Crescent plant in Norwich. Sears Roebuck owned Meridian Firm Arms of Meriden,Ct from 1905 to 1915 but I'm not aware of Sears claiming to make firearms although almost all of Meriden's production was sold by Sears. As to those "Trade Brand Name" listed in the catalog (60 of them) that's not all Crescent made in the lifetime. I've been collecting "Trade Brand Names" for over thirty five years and have a list of over 550 names that Crescent made. It has been said that Crescent would make as few as 12 guns with some selected name on them as long as the buyer bought this minimum number and paid for die needed to stamp the name on the gun. Most of the names I have found fall into that class.


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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:25 am 
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"Manufactured by the H. & D. Folsom Arms Co."

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"Manufacturers of Crescent Shot Guns"

Image

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Last edited by Drew Hause on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:19 pm 
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"Manufactured by the H.&D. Folsom Arms Co."

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Last edited by Drew Hause on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:52 pm 
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I've seen that illustration before and I wish I could move it around to see if there is any text with it. And I know about H & D Folsom's claim that the guns were made in their factories. They can make that claim because they did own Crescent Fire Arms and owned them from about 1893 to 1930. However, do they make the claim to have made the other almost over 400 "Trade Brand Names" that came out of the Crescent Fire Arms Company plant in Norwich. If one looks through any of the several reference books most while mentioning either Crescent or Folsom the writers gives credit to Crescent as a maker and Folsom as either a jobber, a seller of guns and associated items. Sears Roebuck & Company owned Meriden Fire Arms of Meriden,CT from 1905 to 1915 and in their catalogs mentioned that they made guns. Sears did not make guns as they did not make many of the items they sold. Sears its self was a catalog and retail chain store that was a seller, not a maker.


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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Last edited by Drew Hause on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:44 pm 
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I am computer language illiterate and don't know what "TTT" means. I bring up that picture and all I can see is the breech portion of a hammerless shotgun. Tells me nothing. I can't move the display to see anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:50 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Thank you. TTT to you too.


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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:51 pm 
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"We have been manufacturing Crescent Guns for over 40 years"

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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:16 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:42 pm 
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1902 Sears catalog No. 112

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Last edited by Drew Hause on Sat May 09, 2015 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Some here follow the vintage hunting catalog market as a way to identify and date classic guns. A bunch of H&D Folsom catalogs recently appeared on e-bay, along with reprints from CornellPubs
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid= ... &_from=R40
The problem is that most Folsom catalogs were numbered, but not dated, so trying to identify dates of production and name changes is difficult, but I believe revisions need to be made to some of Vorisek's information and here is one:

The Crescent made American Gun Co. "Knickerbocker" Hammerless No. 6 was listed from 1904 to about 1910, then the “Knickerbocker Improved” with coil spring locks until 1924.
The Crescent Gun No. 6 "Peerless" and "Empire" No. 60 appeared in Catalog No. 23 c. 1925. The "New Empire" No. 88 and No. 9 were listed in Catalog No. 27 1929.

This also affects Vorisek's estimated serial number date of manufacture.

NED: could you please share the DOM data only for the hammerless doubles?

More information here
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id ... GIhfguSXXQ

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"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

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Last edited by Drew Hause on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Drew
In Joe Vorisek's list there are three sets of hammerless doubles listed , the TRIUMPH MODEL Hammerless Double which was made from 1895 to 1898, serial number range 001 to 301+ (I don't think that's the one you are concerned with), the NEW EMPIRE SIDELOCK hammerless double which was made from 1920 to 1932 in serial number range 001 to 104,000 and from 1934 to 1935 in serial number range 104001 to 112,000+ and the third: just plain SIDELOCK HAMMERLESS DOUBLE (not New Empire) made from 1904 to 1920 in serial number range 001 to 448,001. I already have the Folsom information and that one on damascus barrels, I can't move it around to see anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:51 pm 
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Thank you Ned

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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:37 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Drew
I must have seen that Damascus Knowledge thing at least two dozen times and that's all I can see. On my monitor screen there is no way to scroll up or down to see any more that the breech of the gun.
Ned Fall


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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Ned: I have no clue, but you may not have a post-2006 Word system on your computer.

Try this
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Table of Contents
http://docs.google.com/document/edit?id ... nQzuYRuLvs

OR at the very top tool bar, there is a little torn in half blue paper icon, which is 'Compatibility View". When you are on the site, click on that icon.

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"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:39 pm 
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c. 1890

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"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


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 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:46 pm 
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1923

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Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Last edited by Drew Hause on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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