It is currently Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:01 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 81 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:27 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 3
Hello, I have an "American Arms Co. New York" ,"Knickerbocker" 12g double hammerless shotgun with barrel marked "genuine armory steel choke bored" with serial #408xx
Could someone please help me determine the year it was made? I cannot seem to find any of these with that have only five digits serial number.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:57 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
I can't understand why you can't find any of these guns with five digit serial numbers. Guns with five digit serial numbers were made , depending on just which model the gun is, between 1905 and 1897 for the side lock hammerless (not the New Empire model) or 1921 and 1932 for the New Empire Mode. Depending on just which model it is (and I'm not sure which is which) if the gun is a side lock hammerless double, it was made in 1905 and if it is a New Empire Model (also a side lock hammerless) it was made in 1925. A disclaimer here. All records for the Crescent Fire Arms Company of Norwich,CT (that's who made the gun) were lost or destroyed in a scrap paper drive during World War II. Mr. Joseph T. Vorisek reconstructed the serial number-year made tables during his research on the company for his book "The Breech Loading Shotgun In America 1865 To 1940." It may not be totally accurate but it's all we have. The serial numbers for the side lock hammerless starts with serial number 001 in 1904 and runs up to 448,000 in 1920 at a rate of about 28,000 guns a year. The New Empire Side lock hammerless starts with serial 001 in 1920 and goes up to serial number 112,000 in 1933 at a rate of about 8,000 gun a year.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:33 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
Image

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:56 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
Thank you Drew. I just spent three days up dating, correcting and adding to my listing of names that Crescent Fire Arms used. "NEW SPECIAL was not among them. I'm glad I haven't printed out the list yet. I still can't bring up that site "DAMASCUS KNOWLEDGE.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:16 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm
Posts: 836
From 'The Standard Catalog of Firearms':

"In 1905 Crescent’s first hammerless sidelock was introduced as the American Gun Co. “Knickerbocker” Model No. 6. This very popular model became the Crescent “Peerless” No. 6 in 1922. In 1928 it became the Crescent “Empire” No. 60 and in 1931 the Crescent-Davis “New Empire” No. 88, “New Empire” No. 9, and “Empire” No. 9."

According to the Serial Numbers Ned posted it would have been made about 1907.

Note that this is for The American Gun Co.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:00 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
Drew
What catalog is that you have posted? I need to know for reference purposes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:39 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
It's the 1917 John M. Smyth Merchandise Co., Chicago Ned. Please note the "New Special" is a boxlock with "High Pressure Compressed Steel Barrels". Not sure which maker used that Tradename.

Ned: this is PeteM's site. Click on the first link and see if it will take you to DamascusKnowledge
http://www.damascus-barrels.com/Links.html

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:53 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
Thank you Drew. And yes, I have a listing for the John M. Smyth Merchandise Company. The site came up O/K. Don't have time at the moment to investigate it but will later. When we come across an unknown "Trade Brand Name" and don't know any better, we blame it on Crescent.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crescent 410 single barrel - Mfg date
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:00 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 6:37 pm
Posts: 2
Grandfather handed down his Crescent single barrel 410 hammerless shotgun to me. It has a #15 Empire Ejector and serial number is 737036. I am interested in knowing when the gun was manufactured. Not interested in value as will not sell it - will be handed down to my son in time.
Thank you


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:30 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
skindawg.
Please check that serial number one more time. I don't have any listings for a Crescent Fire Arms Company hammerless double that go that high. Serial numbers for just a plain hammerless double go up to 448,001; New Empire sidelock hammerless doubles that go up to 112,001; hammer doubles that go up to 680,001 and Model 44s (28 gauge and .410 bore that go up to 36,000. Just for your information, your gun was made by Crescent Fire Arms Company of Norwich,CT (1892 to 1930+) of course for and was sold at retail by Sears Roebuck & Company of Chicago,IL. It could have been sold by catalog order or in one of Sears' stores.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:55 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:26 pm
Posts: 378
Location: Granville, New York
Gotta love all this great gun manufacturing history......remember when we made stuff here???

I hate all that "Made in China" product that now floods our shores.

I somehow accept shotguns made in Italy, Spain and Belgium.

Remington Arms is the biggest disappointment ....now just a shell of what it once was and could have been....

God save America!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:07 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
Image

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:55 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
Image

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:30 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
Drew
Is there anyway you can darken that posting? It came though so light that I can hardly make out what it's saying.
Ned


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:58 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
The original is better.

Order dated 4/22/20 for H.G. Lipscomb & Co., Nashville for 3 cases #0 hammerguns and 1 case #6 hammerless; all 10g. No tradename is mentioned.

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:16 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
Thank you old buddy. Any mention of how many guns are in a case?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:09 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 4226
Location: WA/AK
I believe you misread. It is 10 guns per case and the No. 0 hammer guns were all 12x30, while the No. 6 hammerless guns were 12x28.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:38 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
Researcher is correct

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:51 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
Thank you gentlemen.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Folsom, Crescent, American Gun Co. & Tradename Informati
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:31 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
NOT a L.C. Smith, and torched too :mrgreen:

Image



_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Last edited by Drew Hause on Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 81 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Big Dave01, Bing [Bot], FreeShot, Google [Bot], jpwheels, Majestic-12 [Bot], Maser, RetiredLoader, spartacus38, SuperXOne, wolbaum99


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Carbon Media Group Outdoors    - DMCA Notice