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 Post subject: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING - Help us I.D. your shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:54 pm 
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Please be aware that THE SAME NAMES may be found on vintage single and double barrel shotguns manufactured in Belgium, England in Birmingham or London, made in Belgium but marketed by a Birmingham or U.S. firm, or in the U.S. by Savage Arms, Harrington & Richardson, W.H. Davenport, Hopkins and Allen, J. Stevens, Iver Johnson, Crescent Fire Arms for H.&D. Folsom (then given a 'Tradename' and sold by local or regional dealers), and many others.

A serial number alone is of little assistance in identifying the maker or date of manufacture.

The patent dates on the action or barrel flats might be helpful, but also do not identify the DOM.
See Joe Vorisek's list of patent dates here
http://www.cornellpubs.com/free-files/S ... rtrait.pdf

In order to accurately I.D. your vintage shotgun, it is imperative that you post high resolution, full size, close-up images of EVERY mark. Marks can be accentuated with a grease pen or chalk:

On the barrel flats

Image

just forward of the flats

Image

On the action flats/watertable

Image

the markings on the rib

Image

and barrels

Image

and both sides of the action, carefully and completely spelling any words on the locks or action.

For instance :
"Parkers" made in Belgium including Parker-Smith-Williams, T. Parker, Thomas Parker (possibly by Pieper), and C. Parker & Co.,
T. Parker New York were made by Crescent,
England
E.D. Parker shotguns were listed in the 1895 Clabrough & Golcher catalog, William Parker was a gunmaker from 1790 until 1840 and one of the forerunners of Parker, Field & Sons, High Holborn, London, 1841-1876, and the lowest grade guns marketed by P. Webley were sold under the name of Thomas Parker, London c. 1900-1920,
and Parker Bros. of Meriden, Conn.

Image


One of the many image hosting sites is http://photobucket.com/
Instructions for posting are here
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=172986

PLEASE NOTE: In light of today's sophisticated cyberscams, it would be foolish for anyone to agree to download and post your images. Don't ask.
If you upload images here cpg1410/upload.php post a link to the images so they can be easily found.

U.S. Gunmaker Research Sites

L.C. Smith Collectors Association
http://www.lcsmith.org./index.html

Lefever Arms Collectors Affiliation
http://lefeverforum.informe.com/

A. H. Fox Collectors Association
http://www.foxcollectors.com/

Parker Gun Collectors Association
http://parkerguns.org/

Baker Guns
http://www.bakercollectors.com

Meriden Firearms/A.J. Aubrey
http://meridenfirearms.com/

Remington Society of America
http://www.remingtonsociety.com/

Ithaca Flues Models courtesy of David Noreen
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb ... Post428929

Stevens Hammer Doubles tutorial courtesy of David Noreen
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb ... w=1#UNREAD

(Savage) Fox Model B
http://www.chuckhawks.com/fox_B_shotguns.htm
http://www.savageshooters.com/content.p ... -1961-1987


Thoughts regarding estimating gun value may be found here
http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/worth.html


Dates of Manufacture Resources

U.S. and limited British http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/dates.html

L.C. Smith http://www.lcsmith.org/shotguns/manufacture.html

Ithaca http://www.ithacagun.com/pdfs/serialnumbers.pdf

Winchester http://www.armscollectors.com/sn/windates.htm


Foreign Proof Marks
http://www.shotguns.se/html/proofmarks.html


There is a world of shotgun knowledge here on the Shotgunworld ID & Value Forum, and many members are graciously willing to share the information they have accumulated through reference books and years of research. Be courteous, and do respond to questions posed by those trying to assist you in identifying your gun. If someone has been helpful, please acknowledge their effort with a "thank you".

IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR VINTAGE SHOTGUN, PLEASE START A 'NEW TOPIC' - DO NOT POST HERE



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Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Last edited by Drew Hause on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:55 am, edited 23 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us I.D. Your Shotgun
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:45 pm 
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Excellent advise.


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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:14 am 
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I'll add this one:

House Brand Cross reference:
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Brand-Cross-Reference.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
Tips for posting quality images

Cell phones now have a 2048X1152 (2.4 MP) setting which is adequate for images to be posted on forums. Use a tripod or rest to steady the camera. If using a digital camera, be sure to set it on "Macro" mode.

For enhancing and cropping the image on the photo hosting site, it is important to minimize unneeded background in the original image ie. fill the view finder just with what you want to capture.

Toesies and carpet in the image, though appealing, are unlikely to be helpful :wink:

Image

Plenty of sun here in the desert, so I set up outside with the object in the shade of my neighbor's house, with the morning sun just clearing their roof and reflecting off my stucco. Even in the winter (here) direct sun gives too much glare, but the sun behind thin clouds works OK.

I use a dark grey solid background 10-12 inches behind the object which gives the image a 'floating in space' look

Image

Image

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Last edited by Drew Hause on Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:12 pm
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Good post, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
Belgian Vintage Shotgun Identification and Marks
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfg2hmx7_28dvjzkhgf

The Banc d’Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. In 1899, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Most of the Belgian guns imported before WWI were not of high quality when new, and NO vintage shotgun should be fired, with any load, until examined by a double gun specialist smith.

Belgian makers
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/a% ... e%20gb.htm

Belgian Trade names
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html

Proof Marks - Poincons Officiels du Banc D'Epreuves de Liege
http://shotguns.se/html/belgium.html
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17575181

Date of Proof codes Lettres Annales

Image

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Last edited by Drew Hause on Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:07 pm 
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Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
Once a vintage gun is accurately identified, the next question is frequently "Where can I get parts".
Several parts sources are listed here
http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/parts.html

Unfortunately, you may need to purchase a "parts gun" and salvage the needed components.

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Last edited by Drew Hause on Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:12 pm
Posts: 151
Thanks a million Drew Hause, your the best. I've noticed over the years that most new posters have no idea about the gun there asking questions about and should read this thread before they start, hopefully this will help. Again thanks . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:12 pm
Posts: 151
Thanks a million Drew Hause, your the best. I've noticed over the years that most new posters have no idea about the gun there asking questions about and should read this thread before they start, hopefully this will help. Again thanks . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:47 am
Posts: 1
I have a Remington 1894 double barrel 12 gauge and am trying to figure out which grade it is and it's value. I has steel barrels with the word "Magnum C.12" stamped on the rib just above the chambers. It is highly engraved, moreso than any others I've seen by viewing pictures on the internet of 1894's. It has exhibition wood and a beavertail forearm. The gun's overall condition is 98 to 99%. The receiver is silver in color. The water table has the letter A stamped on it. I'm thinking this may be an A grade gun that was turned into a special order on the line of a DE grade. It has auto ejectors. Can anyone help? Based on what Remington has told me it was made in about 1903 to 1905.


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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
PLEASE review the first and each subsequent post. There are a number of gentlemen here able and willing to help, but you must do your part by accurately describing the gun and any words/marks on the action and barrels. It is imperative that you post high resolution, full size, close-up images of EVERY mark.

One of the many image hosting sites is http://photobucket.com/
Instructions for posting are here
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=172986

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Last edited by Drew Hause on Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us Help You I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:02 pm
Posts: 2
How do I add pictures? Sorry, new to the forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us Help You I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:29 pm 
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Bill_The_Butcher wrote:
How do I add pictures? Sorry, new to the forum.


viewtopic.php?f=28&t=172986

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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us Help You I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:27 pm
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Long time reader, First time poster:
First let me say thank you to all the encyclopedic members out there, all of your input and knowledge has been a great resource over the years.
Now, here's my conundrum: I have acquired an early English Shotgun (between 1816 and 1855 mfg) through an estate purchase. It's in great condition but the wear on it has eroded the make. It's marked faintly London (see picture) along with the Birmingham Proofs. Those are the ONLY proofs on the entire gun, and I checked everywhere! It has dog and pheasant scenes on the locks, and gold inlay on the barrel bridge (see pics). There is Nimsky style paisley throughout all the metal. Damascus Barrel (looks like Twisted Steel). Butt Plate is Iron with no engraving other than the over the stock itself.
Any way to ID it? Value it? or Send me off into the sunset with a clue and a cliche?
Thank you!
Jared ~ Jim's Firearm Repair and Sales
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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us Help You I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:38 pm
Posts: 5
I have a very old pump shotgun that shoots 2 inch 410 or 44 shotshell I'm not sure. It has a 26 inch wire Damascus barrel and is tube fed from front. No markings inside or out. Action looks like a primitive winchester model 12 receiver looks like 1894 lever. Not sure how to get pics up on here using galaxy phone.


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 Post subject: Re: Please Help Us Help You I.D. Your Vintage Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
Another resource. American Gun Makers by Arcadi Gluckman & L.D. Satterlee
https://archive.org/details/gunmaker00satt

_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING - Help us I.D. your shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR VINTAGE SHOTGUN, PLEASE START A 'NEW TOPIC'



_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl ... m/www/home

Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


Last edited by Drew Hause on Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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