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 Post subject: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:17 pm 
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I have recently inherited a Krupp 20 Guage side-by-side. I am looking for information on the gunmaker.




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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:29 pm 
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I don't think that Krupp is a gunmaker. Krupp was a German steel firm that made gun barrels and the like. If i remember correctly it was some of the best steel in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krupp

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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:32 pm 
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I never knew that they made small arms like yours, but Krupp is one of the all time famous German arms makers. They were big suppliers to both the Kaiser in WW I and Hitler's gang in WW II, but mostly in the heavy military stuff, like cannons and mortars.

Maybe somebody with more knowledge on their small arms will pipe in here. If not, you can always search them out on the web, with something like Krupp and shotgun to reduce the amount of pure military stuff you'd get.


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:43 pm 
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A lot of guns by hundreds of different makers have the name of Krupp on them, because Krupp steel had such a high reputation that gunmakers liked to brag about using the best steel.

Krupp made steel, they made bars of steel from which shotgun barrels could be made, and they may have made unfinished barrel tubes, but as far as I know they never made finished guns except for Big Bertha and some other artillery pieces.

This is Big Bertha:

Image

More info here: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWbertha.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:50 pm 
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Yes....did they not make a bunch of heavy artillery as well?

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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:45 am 
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If you don't find an answer here, you might want to try asking on a German shotgun or general weapons forum (no, I don't know one). Or via usenet, post on the group de.alt.technik.waffen. Posting in English would be OK, as the vast majority of Germans will be able to understand written English. If you get replies in German, I'm sure you can find volunteers to translate them into English for you (I could do that for example).

No, I've never heard of Krupp making small arms - but I have never asked or looked. But they were famous steel suppliers (with Thyssen and Mannesmann), and made a lot of heavy artillery. Of all the large German steel firms, they were the one most associated with military hardware, from the middle of the 19th century to the end of WW2. I think in the post-WW2 area Krupp completely stopped working on weapons; that part of the business might have been transferred to Rheinmetall.

Also, it is quite possible that at some time, for example during a war, Krupp did manufacture limited quantities of small arms. For example, it is not generally known that IBM (that's International BUSINESS machines) manufactured M1 rifles during WW2. If you asked "what were the big US gun manufacturers", you would get answers like Colt and S&W, but not IBM. You can regularly find IBM rifles for sale on auction sites at high prices; I think they are bid up by current (overpaid?) IBM employees, who want to buy a gun to match their corporate badge.


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:02 am 
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Krupp made steel and many things of steel like railroad wheels,artillary barrels,small arms barrels and stock steel shapes. Many quality barrels are marked Krupp and it has confused many folks when they see a pre-WWII shotgun with only Krupp marked on the barrels. Even American shotgun builders used Krupp Fluid Steel barrels.

Here is a good reference: "The Arms of Krupp" by William Manchester. It covers the company(and family from 1587 until 1968. I have several copies and if you'd like to buy one,PM me.

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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:10 am 
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Having Krupp barrels and no other name, likely makes it a European guild gun. Post all the lettering, numbers and symbols, Inside and out, and where they are located on the gun, and we'll try to help.. Bushrod


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:14 am 
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Why all the talk of Krupp in the past tense? They're still in business, and still making steel products. They merged with Thyssen to form ThyssenKrupp . That is the name of the German owned corporation I work for. The division I work in hot forges steel crankshafts for diesel engines, primarily Cat, Cummins, and Detroit heavy truck engines. Most of the big trucks/tractors out on the road have ThyssenKrupp crankshafts in their engines.

http://www.thyssenkrupp.com/en/konzern/index.html


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:37 am 
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That is a great help from all of you. I will do some more digging about the possible mfg. of the gun. Thanks to all that replied.


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:04 pm 
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I started out on here the same way you did ... with the name Krupp from the name stamp.

Mine turned out to be a triple barrel survival gun used by the German air force in WWII. It was made by Sauer.

Hope this helps.

Dick


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:15 pm 
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Tarheel" You have the right site, if you post all the lettering, numbers and symbols and where they are found on the gun, we have people here that can ytell you all there is to Know.. However, if it is a guild gun( which I think it is), there may have been 3 or 4 gunmakers who had a hand in building the gun and their identity will never be known.. Good luck.. Bushrod


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:00 pm 
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On the right side of the barrel, it reads Henry Vogt and on the left side it reads Chicago Ill. Perhaps this is the clue we were looking for. Does this help?


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:05 am 
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Henry Vogt was an industrialist , not sure how he ties in with the gun. Remove the forend break it down; remove the barrels and post all the markings.. Bushrod


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:38 pm 
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On the underside of the barrel are the following marks...

On the barrel itself, it looks like "Krupp - LaursTLHL" or something like that.

On the metal piece on the barrel that hooks into the butt of the gun it has the following

What looks likes a winged eagle or bird of some kind, with a "W" to its right.
Under that, it looks like "SUHL"
Under that, a geometric shape that looks like a diamond or a crown.
Under that, a "U"
Under that, a "19" and then a "20" in a circle
Then "70 mm"
Under that, it says "Nitro"
Under that "733"


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:54 pm 
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Tarheel: You have a Prussian (German) Guild gun, made in Suhl, Prussia in July of 1933. The Krupp Lauf Stahl is Krupp fluid steel in the barrels, which have 2 3/4" chambers.. Bushrod


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:15 pm 
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon
I have double barrel 16g w/ Krupp Essin on barrel. Under barrel is date 1939, Finto w/ crown symbol above, other barrel has PSF w/ crown symbol above. Can anyone help me identify?


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:22 pm 
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Same deal, If it doesn't have a name, then It's likely a Guild gun, A half dozen gunmakers could have had a hand in making it.. Bushrod


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:49 pm 
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I have a Winchester model 12 serial #588881. A magazine article I read once put this number with a manufacture date of 1929. The barrel is stamped exactly as follows:-Fluid Steel-Krupp Essen- . Both halfs of the gun have matching serial numbers. Can any one tell me if this gun is original and its worth. It is authentic (almost no bluing left, natural steel color) and normal scrathes and dings in stock. Original recoil pad. This gun was my grandfathers.


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 Post subject: Re: Ever heard of a German gunmaker named Krupp?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:54 am 
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Frank, Repost your question here and Winchesters Only,Dave, may be able to fill us all in. Just post it mentioning Winchester M12. I'd like to know,too. :wink:



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