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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:41 pm 
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This works great. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:04 pm 
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I just bought a new 725 sporting and was under the impression from their online owners manual that the ejectors could be easily changed to extractors by the use of an included tool. To my surprise this doesn't seem to be the case. There is also a YouTube video on it. After doing some searching it seems this might have only been available on European models. Has anyone else been deceived like this? I'll wait to hear some more success stories on the 725 before I attempt this conversion. Does anyone know if it will work with all the gauges with briley tubes?


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:32 am 
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Sorry Emaisch, but I have no idea. This topic is about the Citori, Cynergy and BT-99. I'm sure you'll find the answers your looking for if you start a new topic on that subject.

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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Rastoff wrote:
Sorry Emaisch, but I have no idea. This topic is about the Citori, Cynergy and BT-99. I'm sure you'll find the answers your looking for if you start a new topic on that subject.


The 725 is a citori. But I'll give that a try. Thanks. This thread has been around for awhile. Well done.


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Emaisch wrote:
I just bought a new 725 sporting and was under the impression from their online owners manual that the ejectors could be easily changed to extractors by the use of an included tool. To my surprise this doesn't seem to be the case. There is also a YouTube video on it. After doing some searching it seems this might have only been available on European models. Has anyone else been deceived like this? I'll wait to hear some more success stories on the 725 before I attempt this conversion. Does anyone know if it will work with all the gauges with briley tubes?


I think the tool is a file. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:17 am
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Location: Concord NC
The spring conversion works fine with the 725. I used the extra extra heavy springs. I do not know how well it works with the Briley tubes.


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:12 pm 
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Funny thing is I haven't even shot the gun yet. It's my first over under and one of the things that drew me to it was that I wouldn't have to walk back through the skeet field picking up spent hulls. I'm gonna try and learn to catch them right from the git-go and see how that works. Either way I might be picking them up. Haha


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:29 pm 
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Operate the locking lever, start the gun open, place the stock under your arm, put your hand over the gap formed by your barely open action, open the action fully and let the empties hit you in the hand. No catching required.

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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Another old Citori converted. Thanks Doug. {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: re: Ejectors into Extractors- Citori & Cynergy (with pic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:05 pm 
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quote="Bill_in_TX"]Excellent info and presentation. Sure do wish that I had a digital camera :)

Just one elaboration fo those trying this for the first time. When the ejector sears are removed on the Citori (I don't know the Cynergy, but it's probably the same) the forearm will have to be somewhat forced into place on assembly. That's because you're pushing against the uncocked ejector hammers and their springs.

Consequently, it makes sense to lighten the ejector springs as much as possible. It will make it easier to install the forearm and also makes it easier to open the gun (mine now virtually drops open under just the weight of the barrels when I open the release lever).

I ground down the replacement springs so that they are just sufficiently long to provide enough tension to keep everything together when the forearm is off the gun. Makes life easier all around if you break your gun down for transport/storage.[/quote]


Gents,
I have 3 Cynergys, or is it Cynergies?, and the removal of the sears is very quick and ez.
But like Bill above, I have also taken 3 coils off of @ spring. Makes gun operation much smoother and easier. The next step in fine tuning is going to be to figger the trigger.
Cheers,
R*2


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:58 pm
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The procedure for changing Citori ejectors into extractors worked on my 12 ga Superposed lighting skeet. The empty shells jump up a little but stay in the barrels. But the gun works nice now. Shot 4 rounds of skeet today with no problems. I may experiment a little to see if I can get the empties to just slowly rise. I'm thinking of a weaker spring or cutting a few coils off the 1911 springs I bought from Brownells. I used Brownell's Shotgun Mainspring Toll with the barrels held firmly in a vise for removing the guides and mainsprings . Putting a piece of cloth over the assembly when removing the mainspring guide was an excellent idea. (it pays to read the Shotgunworld forums).

I also made my 20ga & 28ga Cynergy's into extractors. The empty shells rise slowly in each Cynergy's as the gun is opened.

My 20 ga Superposed gets circumcised next. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:54 pm 
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Yes, it should work fine on a Superposed. However, the procedure for changing the springs is quite different than the Citori.

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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:03 pm 
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Rastoff, you are correct, the procedure is different on a Citori. I phrased my message incorrectly :oops: .

The Ejector Hammer Springs & Guides are mounted on the Superposed barrels while I believe the Ejector Hammer Springs & Guides are attached to the forend bracket on the Citori.

What I should have said was that the procedure for removing the Ejector Hammer Spring Guide from the Ejector Hammer on a Citori is the same for a Superposed once both are exposed enough to work on. Both guns have a very similar design unlike the Cynergy which is a totally different design. But as you stated, getting to theses parts is a different procedure on the 2 guns. I don't have a Citori so I am not familiar with working on one. I did just buy my son a Citori and I liked how it handled, it is a very nice gun but I didn't look at how it is put together.

I also mistakenly called the Ejector Hammer Springs - Mainsprings; and the Ejector Hammer Spring Guides - Mainspring guides. Apparently because I mentioned that I used Brownells Shotgun Mainspring Tool to remove the Ejector Hammer Spring Guides from the Ejector Hammers. I find myself using this particular tool a lot when working on guns.

The tricky part with the Superposed was removing the Forend Screw. The screw is unique in that the head isn't flat but slanted to match the taper on the forend sidewalls. It is small with a very small slot. And the face of the screw has some small engraved markings on it. And like the screw on your Citori's forend bracket, it is soft. It was difficult to keep the screwdriver bit fully in the screw slot. I had to be very careful to not scratch the screw face or mar the slot by slipping the screw driver on it. But once the screw was out, the forend slides off easily. I placed the barrels upside down in a padded vise and removing the Ejector Hammer Spring Guides was easy to do.

Thank you for your original instructions. I now have 3 Browning O/U's that have extractors and soon will have a fourth one. Extractors a joy to have shooting skeet. And I pickup my empties when I hunt, so extractors will be great when hunting birds this fall.


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:19 am 
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Dead Duck Flying wrote:
It is small with a very small slot.
These type of screws are not unique to the Superposed. They are common in many fine shotguns. The slots are much more narrow than a standard slotted screw and a regular screwdriver won't fit correctly. This is why there are specialized gunsmith screwdrivers.

This is a good pic of the difference:
Image

The driver on the right is a gunsmith driver. It is hollow ground. This makes for parallel sides where it contacts the slot. They tend to fit the screw perfectly which will prevent damaging the screw. It's worth every penny to get a set to use on your Superposed.

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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:43 am 
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In a pinch you can make your own bits with a grinder or carbide bur.

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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:07 am 
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Gents,

Scavenge the garage sales and flea markets, back when a screwdriver was a real tool some of the steels were very good in the older ones. You can get a handful for a couple bucks.

You can easily hollow grind them yourself, the trick is to be high up on the wheel, start at 1 o'clock. Go slow and have a can of water to cool frequently, refine at the end with a sharpening stone.

The "pro sets" are expensive, and don't necessarily fit old guns. Each shop had their own slitting tool and widths will vary.

Cheers,
R*2

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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:35 am 
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Bojo, Thanks for the tip on how to grind my own screwdrivers? What tool uses a carbide burr? I'm thinking it would be the best tool for hollow grinding screwdriver tips. I know I couldn't do it with a bench grinder.

I think grinding my own screwdriver tips is the answer. Bought three screwdriver sets including the Bonanza and the Wheeler 89-piece set. None have the correct tips for all the Superposed or all of the screws on my Mod 12's. I also a Bernadelli that needs cleaning and it has engraved screws with very narrow slots. I'm afraid to attempt going at those screws with the screwdrivers I have.

The Wheeler tip I used on the Superposed forend screw fit in the slot properly but wasn't wide enough for matching the width of the screw.

But having the Wheeler set has the job half done already. I just have to do some additional fine grinding on the tips this weekend.

And yea I also think the master gunsmiths grind their own bits, actually they are machinists and can fabricate anything out of steel. A real gunsmith can.

Rastoff, I must comment on your ability to post technical gun threads with photos where the different gun parts are numbered. Very impressive. Rare to fine somebody who has gun knowledge and computer technology know how.

I'm still trying to post photos with no luck. And don't bother posting a thread on how to do it, read them already and I still can't do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:39 pm 
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I have a Wheeler kit and it has had the right bit for every gun I've worked on. This includes Superposed and old A.H. Fox guns. I have to admit that I haven't worked on a huge variety of guns so, take it for what it's worth. I still think the Wheeler kit is a good buy.

Dead Duck Flying,
Posting pics is easier than you might think. Even so, there is a process. If you want, I can explain it to you. I'll understand if you don't. I can post pics for you if you like. This is not the thread for that though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:53 pm 
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I'm waiting for the 1911 springs to arrive for my 725 sporting. It's too bad Browning discontinued the ejector-extractor switch feature, I think they either were having trouble with it, or with the amount of inletting required weakening the fore-end. There are differing opinions as to what's required to make the guns do it. They really need to update the owner's manual that comes with the gun, I spent an hour first looking for the "special tool" to make the change, then trying to move the hammers manually into the "extract only" position. 10 minutes of Googling revealed that it had been discontinued with no notice to new owners.

In any case, I'll try the spring swap.

As to the remark about 80% of Browning's repair work being ejector related, I wonder if the cause isn't the extra stress caused when the barrels are opened on empty chambers after being dry fired and the ejectors have nothing to spit out? With a snap-cap or an empty shell to work against, some of the spring force is absorbed as the ejector hammer kicks the ejector rearward. With an empty chamber, there's only the extractor to soak up the energy before it hits the stop pins.

I've made a point never to dry fire the 725 for that reason. I always use a snap cap, or remove the forearm first so the ejectors don't "dry fire" as well. My old SKB gets the same treatment, no point in unnecessarily stressing anything that I don't have to.


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 Post subject: Re: Ejectors into Extractors-Citori, Cynergy & BT-99(w/pics)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:44 am 
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I picked up my 1911 springs on Saturday, I think they were used so I can't say for sure exactly which strength spring went in the gun.

I trimmed 2 coils off each spring to make them fit without the coils binding and bunching up. They did fit as stock, however the side deflection was more than I wanted, so I trimmed them, smoothed the cut ends and installed them.

A few thoughts.. the forearm iron was pretty tight in the 725 sporting wood, I had to remove the locking lever (front screw) and tap the exposed forward ends gently from the bottom to get the iron started out of the stock. It pivots at first, then comes straight out.

Once I had it out, I decided I'd prefer to take the old springs and pins out by compressing the springs a bit, rather than "rolling" the hammers to get the pins out of the hammer recesses. Those original springs are seriously strong, I have no idea why they need to be like that, I think it's overkill on Browning's part. I was afraid of breaking the end of the pins if I rolled them out.

Unable to get the springs compressed any more by hand, I slightly loaded the hammers toward the spring to unload the sears, then tripped them to relieve some of the spring pressure. That helped but I still couldn't get the springs compressed enough to pull the pins.

I ground a flat screwdriver blade in a "U" shape, braced the shank against the back of the hammer, then carefully compressed the spring enough to swing the end of the pin or guide rod to the side and out of the hammer recess. Putting the new spring in it's place is a finger job, much easier to deal with than the originals.

Reassembling the forearm was difficult, the iron is really tight in the wood. I ended up putting the rearmost screw (longest) in the middle position where the threads would engage, and pulled the iron in place by turning the screw.

So.. job done in about 20 minutes. The fired shells now pop up about an inch, then settle back against the extractor plates ready to be picked out. The extractor plates are in the same position they always were height-wise, they just arrive there much more gently.

The transverse pivot pin for the hammers and sears has shown no sign of moving yet, I fired 75 rounds through the gun yesterday with zero problems.

I'll have some pics of the tool I made and the disassembled forearm iron soon.

Thanks Rastoff! It's a great mod and makes the 725 a more enjoyable gun to shoot.

Sean




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