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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:52 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4116
Location: East Mountains, NM
It appears I'm late to the party, but Rudolph has been taking good care of you... he's a first rate fellow.

Welcome to the forum and the world of early A-5's Adrian!

Regards,
Slim




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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:43 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 1843
Location: Missouri
Why, thank you, Slim. You've made me blush! Please add your expertise to whatever I've missed. It's great to help get these old guns running again.

Adrian, if you can lay your hands on a Remington Model 11 carrier spring you can have hours of fun fitting it rather than using the new variety. Also, Wolff Gun Springs ran a few of these off but I doubt it will do you much good "over there".


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:32 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 19
Thanks for the welcome Slim.

We do a fair bit of travelling in the UK so now have an excuse to visit every gun shop I find in search of a reasonably priced firing pin. There must be one in the country somewhere.

Appears odd to me that the carrier spring would break. I do wonder if a previous owner has removed it to make loading the magazine easier? No need then to press the release button to feed shells into the magazine. A bit of a fiddle though to pull the carrier back down once loaded. Just a thought.

I really need to take time to get in there to see what's going on.

Regards,

Adrian.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:41 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 1843
Location: Missouri
Adrian,

Before you go on your hunt for parts, I hope you've disassembled the gun to see if anything else is broken.

Art says in one of his videos that the narrow rail on the Locking Block is prone to failure. This was changed to a wide rail in the '50's, and of course the new part requires a new Breech Block. My first year gun has rails on both sides, and yours probably does too. If so, you won't be able to substitute the new parts for the original. Sometime early on the barrel extensions were "notched" and the locking blocking blocks given a "tail".

Since I've had a carrier spring break, I find it odder that your firing pin broke. I doubt anyone would deliberately remove it.

Some pictures of your project would be appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 19
Thanks. I am compiling a list of parts including your recommended action spring and plug. Brownell's UK charge £8 or so per item so will give then a call to see if they will combine into one delivery.

I have not stripped the gun down yet, waiting to lay my hands on a set of screwdrivers. The Lyman set I found didn't list the exact sizes so had second thoughts there. The local gunshop may be able to help me out with a set perhaps.

I did try to post some photos when I joined the forum first but couldn't for the life of me work out how to do it. The link below should take you to a photo. Once into the project there will be plenty of photos to record what I find and help to remind me how it all goes back together!

Regards,

Adrian.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B276Lv ... cslist_api


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:34 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 1843
Location: Missouri
Holy Smokes! Adrian, the wood alone is worth twice what you paid for your shotgun. That early forearm isn't to be found anywhere. And everything looks to be in perfect condition.

Here's a link for posting pictures:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=172986

I use Photobucket myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:36 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 19
The poor resolution of the photo probably makes it look a bit better than it really is. There are a few maks here and there but it certainly has been well looked after since 1904. Nice patatina as they say and totally original as far as I can make out.

Thanks for the link to posting photos.

Regards,

Adrian.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 1843
Location: Missouri
I thought I'd post Adrian's photo. Hopefully we'll get more soon.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:54 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4116
Location: East Mountains, NM
Very nice find, and in great cosmetic condition.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:20 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:58 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Western TN
Rudolph31 wrote:
When you order your parts, make sure that you order a new Action Spring and Action Spring Plug. Clean out the tube (hopefully it hasn't broken off). If it's broken you'll have to have a new one silver soldered on. Even Art's can't thread an old tube to fit (ask me how I know).


Rudolph,

I believe it's 44 tpi x 0.500" engagement.

You'll have to find a machine shop with a thread cutter, not many 44 tpi dies available and rather expensive for a (hopefully) single use.

Ask me how I know. ;)

Will


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 1843
Location: Missouri
Wil,

Without asking, I'm guessing that we have a shared experience. In my case, Art's son Nick informed me that silver soldering the new tube would require re bluing the receiver. Not wanting to replace the rust-blue with salt-blue on a 1930 gun, I asked them to try to thread it on. They couldn't find a shop to cut the threads, but found that they could solder the new tube without damaging the blue.

Not being a machinist, I imagined that anyone with a lathe could cut any threads necessary. Evidently, that's not the case.

OK, now I'm asking. How do you know?

Image
Picture added to push the annoying ads further down!


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:37 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:36 pm
Posts: 2
Can anyone confirm for me that my A5 is a 1904A...after reading the article I think it is anyway. I know the forestock was changed sometime in the 1970's. Here is a link to the pictures

https://www.flickr.com/photos/110985352@N04/


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 1843
Location: Missouri
shawno66 wrote:
Can anyone confirm for me that my A5 is a 1904A...after reading the article I think it is anyway. I know the forestock was changed sometime in the 1970's. Here is a link to the pictures

https://www.flickr.com/photos/110985352@N04/


I had to go back and re-read Martin's designations, but you are confirmed as a 1904A. Besides the forearm, the butt plate has been replaced. And it's been re-blued.

About that forearm, I think it's belongs on a Magnum Twelve. The barrel extension should be flush with the front of the receiver with the correct forearm installed. Do not shoot it like that.

Last, it looks to me like your friction piece is on backwards. The bevel should nestle into the barrel ring.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:48 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:58 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Western TN
Very similar experience bought a gun online, when I took it down old style threaded tube was broken off.

Retrieved the threaded insert measured the threads and found a die to fit the new solder-in-place tube, but the diameter was a little big so it had to be turned down slightly and threads cut in this case with a thread cutter since the uses for such a die did not warrant the purchase.

Most good tool shops will have a guy or two or four that loves these types of projects it's almost a challenge for them.

Just have to find one you trust.

Will


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:01 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 19
Just a thought but does shocking the stock to remove cause the the to tube to break off? How much clearance is there between the woodwork and tube?


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 1843
Location: Missouri
It's not a very tight fit. And if you bump the receiver like Art shows in his video you'll be "shocking" the tube along its longitudinal axis where it is strongest. If you remove the stock and find it's broken, it wasn't because of you.

By the way, the reason I said to order a new plug for your action spring is because yours might need replacing. In the U.S. this part is so cheap it makes sense to have one on hand. I have only found 1 rotted plug among a dozen guns, and although the plastic part is better I reuse the wooden plugs when I can.

Image

I'm curious, does your tube look like this?


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 19
As soon as it is apart will let you know!
Regards,
Adrian.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:39 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 19
Hi Rudolf,

Looks as if I may have found a parts gun.

Serial number puts it at 1928 although there are some letters in an oval above the number which may have a bearing on the year? I have read a post about these letters but can't find it again at the moment. Safety is in front of the trigger guard with the small locking latch so definitely an early gun.

Has a straight stock so I guess this must have been replaced sometime. Blueing on the barrel all but gone, not certain if barrel matched to the receiver or not. Good forearm, not split, finger groove all the way to the end. Raised rib barrel, not vented. All a bit of a mix and match by the looks of it. Cycles snap caps fine when working the barrel back and forth as your tip.

A little uneasy with the idea of tearing down what looks to be a shootable Auto 5 but would give me a firing pin, carrier spring (hopefully the early receiver mounted type) and a spare forearm I can use to keep my original 1904 crack free! Locking block the early narrow rail type as well hopefully.

Just need to move two shotguns belonging to my friend out of my cabinet as I think the local Police will take a dim view of me holding eight guns (yes, gun laws a bit different over here to say the least) and would like to get it a bit less than the £100 asking price.

Will let you know how I get on.

Regards,

Adrian.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 1843
Location: Missouri
Sounds like a bargain, Adrian. I wouldn't like to part out a usable gun, but one could lend parts while searching for replacements.

Look at your barrel extension. If it doesn't have a square notch in the back, a replacement breech bolt and locking block won't work, thin or thick rail notwithstanding.

Image

The bottom barrel in the picture is from my 1903, top is a 1908 Remington, the other 2 are Browning's from 1924 and '30. I don't know what year the change was made, but it was early. The notch accommodates a "tail" on the new locking block.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:14 am
Posts: 7
My fn numbers is 15820 how old is that gun?




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