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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:21 am 
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Posts: 361
Location: Land of Lincoln
Thanks to all for the knowledge that is shared here. I recently tore down my Remington Sportsman 48 then moved on to my Browning Dbl Auto. After much trepidation I ordered some proper tools and ventured in.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... 25476.aspx

I have primarily been following the field manual instructions provided above. I did watch Arts disassembly video once however lately when I try to view it fom his website it falters. I have confirmed that with other SGW members to eliminate the error was mine. It is also one of the only videos that has not been loaded onto YouTube.

I made the plunge and ordered this video from Midway USA for backup.

American Gunsmithing Institute (AGI) Technical Manual & Armorer's Course Video "Browning A-5, Remington 11, & Savage 720 Shotguns" DVD

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/464714 ... otguns-dvd

It's good however my personal preference is Art's however without a reliable connection I wanted backup. I admit it I'm a belt and suspenders kinda guy.

For reference the A5 is a Lt 12 from 1960 with a 28" VR MOD barrel. I purchased it years ago and have shot thousands of targets with it. Lately upon ejecting a shell the breech block would hang up. With a little persuasion and a little lubricant I was usually back at it. It should be noted this occurred in February with temps below or at freezing. This firearm is not a safe queen and shoots reliably in all conditions.

When I removed the butt plate screws it seemed like dust wafted out of the holes. The butt plate is original and I doubt it was ever removed. It is frozen on the receiver. After fiddling with it for a few minutes I put them back in an moved on as I would prefer not to damage the butt plate or the stock just for curiosity.

I removed the lock screw and tang screw and removed the stock. It was reassuring to see the serial number matched the receiver. Plenty of soot fell out of this area.

Next I removed the trigger group screws. My confidence was rising as the hollow ground screwdriver bits worked flawlessly. Then the trigger group hung down and would not fall out of the receiver? Hmmm? Seemed like something was binding it? While flipping it over and back and forth to try find a solution a small shard of metal fell out from???? Still not sure where from yet. To be continued. I suspect it might have come from the breech block assembly as Art addressed this as a common failure in his video. Sure wish I could view it again.

I then realized the hammer pin was sticking out proudly on the extractor side of the receiver. How and the hell am I going to get that pin moved in while it's still encased in the receiver? I played with it for awhile hoping that gravity would be my friend. No such luck.

I then looked at the field manual to see which steps were next. I proceeded to remove the carrier assembly. Still not enough room to wiggle any tools next to the hammer pin.

Next I removed the action spring assembly which requires a "spring protective area" the metal plug pin came out easily from the "wooden" action spring plug. Classic Belgium.

With all of these components removed I was able to wedge a tapered shim made of plastic between the inside of the receiver and force the pin flush and drop the trigger group. That's enough success for now.

Tomorrow I'll drive the pin out of the breech block assembly and start soaking all these components. I hope to discover where this metal shard was attached. Looking at the amount of grit and grime I suspect I might be the first person to see these components since they left Belgium 55 years ago.

Perhaps I can post some photos tomorrow.



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Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


Last edited by fanugee on Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:23 am 
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Location: Canberra, Australia
Great instructions thanks for posting!


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:13 pm
Posts: 361
Location: Land of Lincoln
I will post some photos now and add text later. All photos are before any cleaning except for the carrier group.

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Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:12 pm 
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Location: Land of Lincoln
These are photos after cleaning.

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_________________
Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:13 pm
Posts: 361
Location: Land of Lincoln
wahooka wrote:
This was a BIG help.. I never realized the receiver would be so sharp where the trigger assembly is. I was cleaning inside and cut the snot out of myself. So be careful :D


+1 wahooka those edges are like razors.

I hammered out the Locking Back Latch Pin and just as the field manual specified the Lock Back Latch fell out. The Lock Back Latch Spring do not however a pair of needlenose pliers took care of that. The only thing that wa restricting it's movement was 55 years of crud.

I then pulled the Operating Handle rearward and while simultaneously pushing the Breech Block forward. Well the Breech Block hung up just about exactly where you line the pin with the cut out in the receiver. Hmmm. I tried to jiggle it thru no luck. I took a brass drift pin and "gently tapped" it forward. Viola. Must have caught a burr or built up sludge.

I then removed the magazine spring retainer using "Art's special tool" a nail head on the workbench helps grip it from the inside for removal. This is much more simple then trying to pry it out with a flat screwdriver blade. For those that have not removed one be aware that you "can shoot your eye out" when that spring flies out like a Jack in the Box. I also removed the Magazine Follower and ran a 12ga chamber brush thru the magazine tube. I found some light surface rust near the magazine cap end. I'll run some scotchbrite in there. Or maybe a 10ga brush. Otherwise the ID looks a bright and shiny as the barrel bore.

Being that the weather is not yet conducive to working outside in the garage without heat. I tried something I learned from the DVD from Midway. I soaked, sprayed and scrubbed all the components with Simple Green. Then I flushed them with hot water. I have never been a muzzleloader however I think they practice this method.

I then towel dried then used compressed air to blow out as much moisture as possible. I then wiped everything down with the Rem Oil wipes that come in the tall container.

I have the trigger and the breech block assembly sitting on a bench with a ceramic heater oscillating on them for good measure.

I have decided not to tear down the trigger or breech block assembly. The DVD provides the knowledge to do so however I don't feel the need to create anymore headaches for myself just to prove I can do it. I also opted not to remove the magazine cutoff or the carrier latch assembly. I believe in Art's video he recommended leave those alone unless they needed replacement. Mine are attached with very thin pins instead of the screws that require a jewelers screwdriver. I believe the carrier latch assembly pin hole has approximately 1/32" of material which you could easily blowout. I'll pass on that.

Remember when I said I found a small shard of metal when I began this journey?

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Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:13 pm
Posts: 361
Location: Land of Lincoln
Take a look at these two photos

This photo shows the breech block assembly with the shard put back in place.

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This photo it with the shard of metal removed.

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I believe on Art's video he addresses a similar failure however I thought it was from one of the components housed in the breech block? Not from the actual block? Perhaps I can ring him up for a chat.

I have found a few burrs here and there that can be stoned however other than the above mentioned metal shard I can find no further issues. Nor do I want to.

I'm still unsure about fussing with the removal of the butt plate? I have heard stories of old hunting licenses, cigars, etc being found in the Lightning hole.

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I also noticed these stamps on the pistol grip knob. I believe this has no reference however it is mentioned in the S/V A5 book.

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Well wish me luck putting her back together. I truly appreciate all the A5 comraderie on SGW.

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Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
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Location: Missouri
Fanugee:

Looks like you've got the "new" Breech & Locking Blocks. Art says they beefed up the rails on the Locking Block and started having problems with the Breech Blocks. Good news for you because you can buy a brand new bolt from MGW that will fit your undamaged (I hope--you didn't take pictures!) Locking Block.

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/PROD/B11110BB

Even if your bolt wasn't damaged (or you plan to file the damaged area and reuse it) I would urge you to remove that last pin and clean the crud out of the firing pin hole. Also, I like to spread a little grease on the Locking Block rails. If you're only going to clean it once in a lifetime you may as well do a thorough job.


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:38 am 
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Location: Land of Lincoln
Hey Rudolph31
Thanks for the well appreciated insight.
I knew that Art mentioned something about this on his video. I'll give it a go and see what's inside. Right now the action " is slipperier that snot on a door doorknob." I must be truthful the cost of a new bolt would be substantial relative to the purchased price of this particular A5. However I'm impressed they still can be had.
This particular A5 is my go to humpback and also has a small crack in the wrist area of the stock. I have postponed repair for the same reason.

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Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:37 pm 
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Fanugee,

I would be tempted to dress out the chipped spot and reuse the bolt too. Funny that it broke at the rear--I would think the stress would be in front when the action is locked. The thought of what would happen if the bolt comes apart so close to my face might make me change my mind, however. Good idea to call Art.

Sounds like you got a good deal on what looks to be a fine shotgun. I wouldn't let that fact stand in the way of making repairs. Parts are available on ebay and Gunbroker if you'd like to shop around.

Finally, I don't think you'll have any trouble removing your buttplate. If the screws won't tighten up sufficiently during reassembly, put a wooden toothpick and a drop of glue down the hole. Works every time.

EDIT: Found on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Browning-A-5-12 ... 0965095337


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:13 pm
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Location: Land of Lincoln
Thanks Rudolph31,
I was able to stream Arts disassembly video late last night and I believe that he was pointing to the same area on the breech block that mine failed. I could not find my set of pin punches in the garage so I ordered a set of Grace pin punches from Midway. I expect to find the original set when they arrive.

Regarding the butt plate removal. I removed the screws however unlike other vintage Browning products the butt plate did slide right off. It seems to be sealed airtight on the butt stock and I don't relish the idea of damaging it or scratching up the wood just to remove it. I tried gently tapping on it with a soft faced mallet without success. The screws went back in and locked up bank vault tight.

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Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:03 pm 
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While you're waiting for your new punches, you might want to put some Kroil on that last pin. For some reason it's tighter than the others.

I understand that sealed buttplates such as yours were only used when something extremely valuable was concealed in the lightening hole...


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:13 pm
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Rudolph31 wrote:
While you're waiting for your new punches, you might want to put some Kroil on that last pin. For some reason it's tighter than the others.

I understand that sealed buttplates such as yours were only used when something extremely valuable was concealed in the lightening hole...


That is an excellent idea as both the DVD and Art's video clearly proved that.

LMAO at this point I'll let my son know that so in the future he can claim the prize :)

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Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:13 pm
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Location: Land of Lincoln
Today I punched out the Firing Pin Stop Pin. Presoaking it the night before is highly recommended.
I am currently soaking all the components, however the breechblock it's a moot point as I have ordered a replacement. Thanks Rudolph31 for reminding me that safety is not an area to be frugal about. I have included in my photos a few products that serve me well.

The broken orange universal cleaning stick was a giveaway from a previous SHOT show. I broke it years ago and finally noticed the website on the tool. They are inexpensive however you'll have to order a few to justify the minimum order. The Pro Shot Zero Friction is a go to lubricant for me. I was out of Kano Kroil so I used it to presoak the pin and will use it "judiciously" for reassembly. All the components that would fit into the Slip 2000 choke cleaner bottle came out clean. Larger components were bathed in Simple Green. I will insert the websites for anyone interested.

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https://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_CTC.php

http://www.countycomm.com/ucs.html

http://www.proshotproducts.com/Zero-Fri ... p_618.html

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Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:00 pm 
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In preparation of the delivery of the new breech block I decided to drive out the extractor pins from the bottom with a 3/32" punch per the A5 field manual. Upon further inspection the holes on the bottom are just undersize of 3/32" and the top of the holes are just oversize of 1/8". The images online of the extractor pin do not show the pin as tapered? To be continued.

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"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:30 pm 
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You haven't said but I'm guessing you plan to replace your recoil and action springs. You'll be glad you did.

Great pictures and descriptions, by the way. I did something similar with a 1903 Auto-5 and documented it here:

http://www.browningowners.com/forum/ind ... to-5.2736/

You might be interested in the changes made in the 57 years from 1903 to 1960.


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:08 am 
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How is this for timing. They arrived today.

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Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:48 am 
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Just some notes regarding the photos above. The new recoil spring is a healthy 1/8" longer, however the new action spring is a good 1-1/8" longer. I also ordered the new brass friction piece. The slot on the side is approximately 1/16" smaller and upon side by side comparison the inside diameter flats on the old component have flattened out and protrude on both sides resembling gear teeth.

Once I successfully complete the reassembly my other A5 models will be perused for replacement parts based on what I have learned so far.

Regarding the extractor pin removal a presoak with whatever penetrating oil you own is highly recommended. I was forced to hammer out the pins with a 1/16" pin punch. Approach with caution as the working length of the pin punch is just shy of the overall length of the pin hole. I was forced to resort to using a 5/64" drill bit to tap the extractor pin the final 1/16"? out of the hope. I did consider using pliers to grip the pin however it was sticking out like a flagpole and I had nightmares of it breaking off in the breech block. I do not advise substituting a drill bit for a pin punch however as a trained machinist our apprenticeship instructor reminded us that "theirs a time to be a butcher and a time to be a diamond cutter, you need to know when to choose."

The right extractor (operating handle side) has heavy wear. I'm going to leave that alone for now.

The new breech block should arrive early next week. I have also ordered a bench block after staking a perfect hole thru my Boyt cleaning mat. Live and learn.

I do find it interesting that all the instructions for the A5 are in imperial (inch) while the manufacturing was in Belgium leading me to believe metric tools and manufacturing methods were employed. However like the advertised barrel lengths that were manufactured in metric lengths they were rounded up for the American market. Just my .02

Excellent documentation on the 1903 model. My oldest A5 is 1950 and that is my decade of choice for collecting. I have dabbled with some early Superposed models and that's a whole other sickness I suffer from.

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"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:15 pm 
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I went on a (semi-successful) search for longer punches. It seems every pinhole on an Auto-5 is 1/4" longer than the punch. It's exasperating.

Looks like your action spring was overdue. The recoil spring looks like it can be stretched a little and used on another gun. I change the springs when I acquire an Auto-5--except for the 1903 and a 1924 16 gauge. Those guns have square coil springs and are not shot much. I should probably swap 'em out for shooting and back in for display.

Thanks for checking my 1903 thread. My collecting objective is to have a representative sample over the years. I think I've come close, though with Grade I guns.

Happy Reassembly!


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:43 pm 
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Nice cleaning job! Look forward to seeing her put back together {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: BROWNING A5 DISASSEMBLY
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:38 pm 
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Location: Land of Lincoln
The new breech block arrived today. Looks like it's close but no cigar. The slots are of equal size however the physical characteristics are not.

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"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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