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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:41 pm 
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Hi all,
and I recently inherited an A5 and would like to shoot real light loads for skeet...as in 3/4 oz...and I am wondering if anyone ever changed the spring inside for super light loads to get the gun to cycle the empties....I understand the placement of the friction rings for light loads, but I am shooting around 15 grains of 700x with the 3/4 oz. load using the claybuster wad.
thanks,
Terry




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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:03 pm 
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Hi Terry,

It seems everybody wants to shoot light loads out of their Auto-5. I'll give you a tip you won't find anywhere else: Take the plug out of your magazine and put a couple of snap caps in there. Magazine spring force will help get the bolt moving.

Let us know how you make out....


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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:55 pm 
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Rudolph31 wrote:
Hi Terry,

It seems everybody wants to shoot light loads out of their Auto-5. I'll give you a tip you won't find anywhere else: Take the plug out of your magazine and put a couple of snap caps in there. Magazine spring force will help get the bolt moving.

Let us know how you make out....
how?


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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:09 pm 
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I explained it here:

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=366895


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 Post subject: putting in dummy rounds
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:43 pm 
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Ok, so to make sure I understand...if dummy rounds take up the space in the magazine tube instead of a plug, somehow the light loads will cycle?
I will try it, but I'm not getting it....I thought the factors that would be involved would be the tension of the barrel spring, and the proper placement of the rings...
thanks again for any input...
Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:43 am 
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The plug doesn't COMPRESS the spring. All that other stuff is important, but you are attempting to make the gun cycle loads it wasn't designed to handle. Your A5 is going to need all the help it can get.

The rounds in the magazine rest against the locking block latch, which is pinned to the bolt. Magazine spring force will help start the bolt/barrel rearward when the gun is fired.

The OP in the cited thread had an A5 that worked fine until the last round. That one stayed in the mag.


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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Maybe this will help. Close the bolt and load a round in the magazine. Now look where it went--it's partially out of the mag and pushing on the bottom of the bolt assembly. The more the spring is compressed the harder it pushes.


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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:31 pm 
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I tried a few dummy rounds in the magazine and had the friction ring well lubed, but no luck kicking out empties with the light loads...
the bolt just doesn't open ...
anyone ever tried a lighter spring ??
thanks,
Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:04 am 
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There are 2 springs, the Action Spring at the rear of the receiver and the Recoil Spring on the magazine tube. You can experiment with cutting coils. But wouldn't it be easier to experiment with slightly heavier loads until you find one that cycles?


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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:29 pm 
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Rudolph31 wrote:
There are 2 springs, the Action Spring at the rear of the receiver and the Recoil Spring on the magazine tube. You can experiment with cutting coils. But wouldn't it be easier to experiment with slightly heavier loads until you find one that cycles?


+1, I wouldn't want to mess with a proven design as monumental as then Auto 5. Also you might run the risk of peening the receiver if you cut some coils on the action spring


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 Post subject: Failure to eject in extreme cold
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Rather than start a new thread, I will piggy-back here; I think my question is close enough to the main topic for that.
Every year, my sons-in-law, one daughter and I go out to South Dakota in early December to hunt pheasants (we live in North Carolina). Typically, it is colder than a stepmother's smile--last year one morning it was -16. One of us shoots a 1960's vintage Light Twelve A-5. We shoot standard pheasant loads, 1.25 ounces, high brass. Every year we have trouble getting shells to eject. I've tried setting the friction ring for light loads, tried a variety of lubricants; I can't get it to reliably work.
My question is, what can I do? Particularly (and this will likely start an argument): what lubricant (if any) is best to use on the friction tube, under these extreme conditions? The gun works fine back here in the sunny south for doves.
Thanks for any insight; obviously I have plenty of time to consider alternatives before this year's hunt.
Beach004


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 Post subject: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:25 pm 
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Beach004, no need to consider alternatives you have a great gun that will do it all and not to mention served reliably in WWII. I have several vintage guns that when I first got them would not function properly. I'm
Of the firm belief that as long as the gun is clean and to factory spec IT WILL function as designed. Finding out what is out of spec or causing that malfunction can sometimes be tricky. I own 3 long recoil guns and love them all! Auto 5 mag 12, savage 755a, Remington 11-48. Before we dive into more discussion can you please elaborate and give specifics if what type of malfunction, how often, what ammo ect. New springs (recoil, magazine and buttstock) and rings are cheap and always help extend the life of your gun.
I found it interesting you said it works flawless in warner N.C. But not in colder North Dakota during your hunts. Before you start tinkering and changing out parts consider this. The long recoil action needs to be firm against your shoulder. If your were wearing a poofy jacket the padding would act as a recoil absorber stealing some energy out of the recoil operation, this compounded with another tiny issue together could be causing malfunctions. As far as lube is concerned a little on the mag tube is fine, it's not going to hurt your gun, too much will make it too slick and cause excessive recoil. As far as the temp maybe a thin film of grease or some dry spray on lube. As a matter of fact I'm thinking about using that remington dry lube just so over time a little bit of oil doesn't leak into the wood forend.
Get back to us and we will get your Auto-5 back into action! Make sure there are no burrs anywhere either that would impede the recoil action.

.....one more thing. As these guns are old I have seen some oxidation on the mag tube it just a little roughness. What has helped my guns function (I exclusively shoot target loads) is to slightly polish the mag tube using a green scratch pad or 350 grit. Wrap it around the tube and " make like you just broke up with your ex" to polish. Do this for about 15 seconds just enough to smooth things out, wipe off the tube then with a clean rag apply mothers polish and in the same motion polish the tube to a clean almost mirror finish ( just like any new semi would be today). It doesn't need to bling or look pretty just make it smooth and clean like the day it rolled out the factory. Careful in the sanding part you don't want to remove metal or that brass ring won't have much to grab on too. Remington 1100's (although gas) are particularly sensitive to tube outside diameter dimensions. Again this is not an alteration just a cleaning and smoothing up of things. Here's my 755a mag tube, I wish I had a before pic Image

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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:49 pm 
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e49735 wrote:
Hi all,
and I recently inherited an A5 and would like to shoot real light loads for skeet...as in 3/4 oz...and I am wondering if anyone ever changed the spring inside for super light loads to get the gun to cycle the empties....I understand the placement of the friction rings for light loads, but I am shooting around 15 grains of 700x with the 3/4 oz. load using the claybuster wad.
thanks,
Terry
I don't reload so I'm
Not familiar with the velocity or energy output of that powder but just about most semi autos I've handled work great down to 1oz and that's about it. IMHO a 1oz in a semi should feel like a 7/8oz. Mine did not cycle the 7/8 "extra-lites" I picked up. After I switched out the rings and springs in my mag 12 I experimented to see how low it would go. It ejected 1 in 5 of the 7/8oz. That's just my 2 cents. Maybe you can just run the gun sans brass friction ring? That's a far stretch and I wouldn't do it but I'm
Sure it would work.


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Beretta A400 Xcel 30"
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Sears 66 12ga
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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:06 pm 
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Thanks, Alex! My late father and I purchased these Belgian A-5's back in the 60's, and we shot them for 40 years--doves, quail, rabbits. Great guns. In recent years, old age has caught up with me, alas, and these guns are too heavy for me to swing as rapidly as I like, so I have gone back even farther: Now I'm shooting an Ithaca Model 37 for those pheasants: it always ejects!
But back to the topic. The problem is quite reproducible, if limited: It's the cold weather. Shells don't matter; I think most years we are shooting Remington Pheasant loads, the copper-plated shot ones; last year I could only buy Federals in Platte, SD. Never less than 1.25 oz. I think the gun has the original parts in it--I may have replaced the friction ring, maybe the spring--I can't be sure; it's been a long trail. I've cleaned it pretty thoroughly, though I will try polishing that cylinder as you suggest. As I said, it works flawlessly with 1 oz loads, even reloads, in warm weather, so it's gotta be something to do with the cold, and I really think it has to do with lubrication on that cylinder: I suspect whatever I've used is getting thick and slowing the cycle; mostly it's been WD-40 or Rem-Oil, I think. Would it be good to try Dri-slide (sp?)? Some other product?
A complication of course is that I can't readily reproduce those frigid conditions back here in NC; I guess I could put the receiver in my freezer, but that's not very close to reality, out there. You could also be correct about the clothing cushioning the recoil; not much we can do about that--pheasants rarely wait for us to "get right." But they sure are a wonderful challenge...


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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:21 pm 
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......hmmmm WD-40 as a lubricant isn't my first choice and although I use remoil I agree it's not the best performance lube. -16 is friggin cold! Maybe some of the metal in the receiver (bolt, barrel) is sticking. I would suggest grease on the barrel extension and dri lube on the mag tube. After your last post I highly suspect the problem is more related to lost energy before the cycling process is complete. As you mentioned the gun works with your light loads, no need to stick her in the freezer lol. I have never shot pheasant but from
What I've watched on YouTube hunting videos is that these are almost reflexive type shots and very close. From what I can tell over the net is that your gun is fine and a combination of the clothing and the butt pad not being firm against something is causing your malfunctions.


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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:51 pm 
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JMB himself was a fan of engine oil as a lubricant on his Auto5.

I'd try another type of oil/lubricant, see if that fixes the problem...plus the advice from alex124485 looks sound too; polish the magazine tube just to brighten her up a little and cut down any possible high spots.

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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:56 pm 
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Alex had a suggestion in another context, which I have considered but rejected as too risky to the gun: Take out the brass friction ring entirely. I never have; doubt I want to try it now...


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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:04 pm 
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beach004 wrote:
Alex had a suggestion in another context, which I have considered but rejected as too risky to the gun: Take out the brass friction ring entirely. I never have; doubt I want to try it now...
yea, I'm sure it would work but wouldn't be good even with 7/8 oz


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Savage 755a
Sears 66 12ga
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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:32 pm 
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I live in North Dakota and hunted a Beretta 391 Urika down to -10, if the wind weren't blowing...the bolt would slowly eject and I'd have to push it back into battery. I realized I was using too much lube and it gummed up in the cold. I ran almost NO lube to help the situation and it did somewhat. I finally fixed it by trading it for a Citori 16 gauge and never looked back!

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 Post subject: Re: Auto 5 friction ring/s settings & additional info
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:05 am 
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Just some food for thought ...

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showth ... p?t=212418

http://www.greatnorthernprepper.com/col ... g-gun-oil/

I'd try that graphite dry lube give that lubrication is the main culprit of these malfunctions



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Beretta 687 SPIII Sporting 32" J.E.G. Special
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Sears 66 12ga
Savage 311 SxS
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