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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 1:25 pm
Posts: 29
Hi Seamus and others,

I have Seamus's fine book on the 391. I own three 391 Techny's. I have one that fails to cycle Winchester 1145 fps, 1 1/8 oz loads. The hull will stay in the receiver with the bolt back. This does not occur every time but at least 4-5 times per 100 shells.

I am well versed in 391 take down. I just today removed the stock, trigger -- everything and it all looks very clean. I use a 1/8" drill bit to clean the gas ports. I lube the rail and bolt with Kroil and STOS. Operating manually it seems nice an smooth. The recoil spring was replaced a month ago and comparing to a new one looks great.

My plan is to start swapping parts with one that works. Does anyone have other ideas? Thanks you any advice/help.

John




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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:06 pm
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Location: SW Virginia, USA
Seamus (and anyone else),
I have a 390 with, conservative guesstimate, 200,000 rounds out of it. I love the gun, but am starting to get Failure to Feeds, about 4-5 every 100 rounds. Happens with reloads, factories, even Nitro 27's. I have the correct springs in as well. It's usually the second shell after the first is fired, but occasionally happens when I drop the first shell into the port and hit the button. The crimp end catches on the chamber and I can see the full length of the shell, so no partial insertion. This is the same every time it happens; i.e. no stovepiping, no partially inserted feeds, no fail to eject empties. I think I've narrowed it down to wear on the little ear of the carrier plate on the right side. It's becoming beveled from wear. See pic below. My question: Can I simply bend this ear in about a half mm or so and fix it, or will that cause more problems and if I want it solved, need to buy a new carrier plate from Cole or somewhere?
Other 390 owners, does your tab looked beveled like this one?

Thanks!

Ben

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:57 pm 
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Is your book still available? Just got a 1998 version AL390 Silver Mallard and it may help me out.


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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:38 am 
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Yes, it is still available, still only $20 for shipment in the USA, $23 to Canada, most other countries $28. Please pay in US funds.

You can pay by PayPal to jpcassada@gmail.com or by check to:
Seamus O'Caiside
1007 Christie Rd
Richmond, VA 23226

Thanks!

Jim, aka Seamus

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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:18 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
dmdegood wrote:
Seamus--Can you tell me how to remove the recoil spring cap if it doesn't have flat sides?
I purchased my 391 second hand, so I don't have the history, but the spring cap on mine looks to be machined metal, not black like the illustration on pg 16 of your book.

Did you ever get an answer or solution on this? I don't think my recoil spring cap has flats on it, either. After 17 years, mine is probably pretty crudded up, too.

If not, I can just wrap a light rag around it and use pliers.


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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:03 pm 
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It does have flats, but they are not where you would expect to find them. The flats are on the end of the threaded part of the cap. They are small, and I don't know why Beretta didn't put them on the large-diameter part of the cap. Nevertheless, the small flats will work OK with a small adjustable wrench, provided you break the Loctite first, as described in the first post in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:09 pm 
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Excellent Seamus, thanks for the tip. It's disassembled on the kitchen table right now, the new stock is coming in from MGW today and I expect to have it ready and put back together, tonight. Looking forward to this one, it's very lightly used and in top shape. The original stock was cut to 13.5" and gun was shot very little. Matching wood is not easy, at least this way I'll have two OEM stocks for it, one 13.5" and one 14.75".


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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:02 am
Posts: 11
Location: IRELAND
First off... Exellent post been reading through for the last half hour ...

i have a small problem you might be able to help me with i hope ,,

i got a second hand ulrika 391 couple of months back ,gun worked fine cycling everything i put through it ,,i decided to strip it and clean it ..when i went to take the trigger group out it was stiff and took a lot of effort to remove it ,id say it was the first time it was removed as the amount of gunge was frightening .problem i have now is that since i done this cleaning the gun will not release a cartridge from the magazine wether i cock it by hand or fire a shot,have i not put it back together properly ?? is this a common fault ???is it something you've seen before

ian...

p.s. is it $28 to Ireland for your book ..have to get a copy ..

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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:45 pm 
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I would remove the trigger group again and put it back in. Make sure the hammer is cocked on the trigger group, safety on, bolt locked back, then press and hold the bolt release button when putting the trigger group back in. Once installed, operate the bolt by hand and make sure the shell lifter lifts, and the bolt locks back when expected.


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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:02 am
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Location: IRELAND
Hi Dallas Cmt ...

i just followed your suggestion there and lo and behold its now working fine ,,i should say that i tried that several times yesterday as well but to no avail,,are they known to be that finicky ??

would i be right in saying as well that you cant unload the weapon by cycling the rds through the chamber ,and that you have to use the magazine cut off and then extract them by hand thru the loading area..

thanks for your help {hs#

ian....

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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:12 pm 
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iano wrote:
Hi Dallas Cmt ...

i just followed your suggestion there and lo and behold its now working fine ,,i should say that i tried that several times yesterday as well but to no avail,,are they known to be that finicky ??

would i be right in saying as well that you cant unload the weapon by cycling the rds through the chamber ,and that you have to use the magazine cut off and then extract them by hand thru the loading area..

thanks for your help {hs#

ian....


They are not finicky at all. I own 5. Is the bolt release button working? Is the cap on the magazine spring worn? Is the magazine spring weak or broke?? Is the carrier bent?? What did you lube?? I hope it was not the trigger group?? Since your in Ireland pictures may help??

Not knowing how many rounds the previous owner put through it?? Might need a spring job??

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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:49 pm 
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I only provided that info because my friend's new A300 did the same thing after he reassembled it after a full takedown. He had never had it apart before. The day before, I had done the same on my 390, and mine worked. They are similar guns. My guess is that yours will work from here out, but you'll never know what you did different. My friend never did, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:59 pm 
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iano wrote:
would i be right in saying as well that you cant unload the weapon by cycling the rds through the chamber ,and that you have to use the magazine cut off and then extract them by hand thru the loading area..
Yeah, you can cycle them through the chamber. All you have to do is press the little button at the base of the carrier to release the second shell from the magazine, open the bolt to eject the shell in the chamber, close the bolt on the second shell, press the button again to release the 3rd shell from the magazine, open the bolt again to eject the 2nd shell, close it on the 3rd, etc. That may not be the easiest way, but it works.

Actually, I have never used the magazine cutoff for its intended purpose. When I am on the clays course, I never have more than 2 shells in the gun, and when I have to unload (in case of a trap malfunction, etc) I cycle them through the chamber. I even have the cutoff disabled on one of my guns. As my late father-in-law would say, it is as useless as teats on a boar hog.

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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:53 pm 
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Thanks for a very useful post,now I know how to dismantle and replace the firing pin and spring on my old 302. Something I do use to stop the carbon sticking to the piston area is arc welding anti-spatter spray which seems to be silicon based and does make cleaning easier.

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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:43 pm 
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Seamus O'Caiside wrote:
It does have flats, but they are not where you would expect to find them. The flats are on the end of the threaded part of the cap.

I never did disassemble the recoil spring tube and clean it out. My question is whether you feel my gun needs it.

It's a 1998 (17 year old) AL390 20ga Silver Mallard, 26". I recently got the gun, it was in like new but "normally dirty" condition - based on wear indicators it maybe had 6-8 boxes of shells through it, total. There is simply not a scratch on the gun, no wear marks in the receiver, either, and it looks brand new. Only down side is that it was shot and put up dirty for 15+ years, but I was able to scrub out everything and now it's spotless.

Shooting it, it cycles 7/8th oz @1200 and 1 oz @1165 just fine, but I do get one FTF about every 4 boxes - two each with both loads. I've had it FTF on me once each time I've shot 100 round of clays. It's cleaned well after each shoot and very lightly oiled, only. After cleaning, I only wipe it with a lightly oiled cotton patch, no visible oil.

I can't image the recoil tube/spring is dirty, but the mag tube was - the follower was sticking and dry, I cleaned and lightly lubed that. Just not sure if the recoil tube is worth cracking into. I'm kinda afraid I might damage those threads around those small flats.

Edit: not sure it's worth mentioning, but the seller threw in 25 boxes of ammo with the gun - the ammo was bought new when the gun was bought, so the ammo I'm shooting is also 17 years old! They all go bang, though, and the ammo was kept clean and dry.


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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:56 pm 
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The recoil spring is probably OK. It weakens from being cycled (compressed and relaxed) not from being stored (even if it is stored cocked). So that spring is probably near new.

What kind of FTF? Weak firing pin strike? That usually is caused by a weak hammer spring, but I would not expect that in a gun that hasn't been shot much. Still, I think replacing the hammer spring is the first thing I would do to try to correct it (aside from cleaning, which you have already done).

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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:36 pm 
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Seamus O'Caiside wrote:
Ehat kind of FTF? Weak firing pin strike? That usually is caused by a weak hammer spring, but I would not expect that in a gun that hasn't been shot much. Still, I think replacing the hammer spring is the first thing I would do to try to correct it (aside from cleaning, which you have already done).

I'm sorry, I meant Failure To Feed, meaning that when loading two, the 1st shell fires but the 2nd shell doesn't chamber properly. It's usually down in the receiver on top of the lifter.

Now that I've thought about this more, I may know my problem. I have noticed that the 2nd shell loads into the magazine two different ways. First, I'll toss the 1st shell in and press the load button, 1st shell is chambered. Then I'll press shell #2 in to the magazine. If I press it in far, the back of the shell sits flush with the opening of the mag tube. If I don't go that far, it seems to sit part of the way out of the mag tube, and I can see part of the shell overlapping the lifter.

In either case the gun will cycle the 2nd shell properly, but I think in the cases it hasn't fed, the shell wasn't pushed in all the way, and was visible over the lifter. Seems that if I press the 2nd shell in all the way so it feels flush with the mag tube opening, it cycles reliably each time. I need to try it with two+ shells in the mag.

I'm not sure why it behaves this way, seems like the 2nd shell would want to sit (or be held) in the same spot each time. When I noticed and realized the difference, I began pressing them in all the way, and I haven't had a failure to feed, since. Maybe that was it all along.

I also wonder if this gun an be ghost loaded, reliably. This is where you can float an extra shell over the lifter, with three in the mag tube, and one in the chamber - increasing the total capacity from 4 to 5. Many semi's can do this safely and reliably, I haven't tried it, but basically you put three in the magazine, pull and hold the bolt back partially to put one in the chamber, release the shell carrier stop button, get one in over the lifter, then close the bolt. The 301, 302, and 303 can apparently do it -

.


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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:32 pm 
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Hi my friends,
I own a 391 urica 1 and I have the following cycling problem. When I fire fist shot the magazine release 2shells in the carrier. Is anybody with the same problem? Last time use it at 50 rounds I had the issue 4 times. Maybe the bolt release button spring must be replaced?

Will appreciate any advice.

Thanks in advance!


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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:51 pm
Posts: 133
Can anyone give instructions on how to remove the forend cover assembly, I've managed to remove the front round piece but the metal cover plate seems to be fitted with a rivet, I need to strip it to remove all the carbon, dirt etc that has accumalated.
The dissasembly book written by Seamus does not give any details on this ?


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 Post subject: Re: Disassembly of Beretta 391
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:17 pm 
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The forend cover is not intended to ever be removed for cleaning or routine maintenance. The rivet must be destroyed to remove it, and a special tool is needed to fit a new rivet. It can be cleaned adequately without removing it. It is not necessary to get the thing spotless - a little powder residue inside the vent area will do no harm.



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