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 Post subject: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Location: Long Island ,NY
I found a NIB Winchester Super X Model 1 Trap. I know him from the club and he wants $800. What do you think? Very pretty wood.
Eddie :)



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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Very good price for NIB gun. Is it early or late model...specifically, does it have a screw in the muzze end of the rib and a serrated trigger? My advise is that for $800, definitely take it if it fits you (is it MC or straight trap stocked?). You can always find other barrels if trap is not your only game. Hell, it would be a shame, but you can even part it out for much more than $800 (but please don't do that...shoot it and love it)

One thing, though, DO NOT shoot it before you change out the bolt buffer for one made from modern material. Not even one shell. The old original hard rubber buffer will almost instantly disintegrate.

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:47 am 
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I think $800 is not bad if the gun is a late model. If it is
early, then I think the price is just a little high, just my
uneducated opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:24 pm 
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I'll have to go over to his house and get the serial#' to see what year it was made.
Eddie

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:03 pm 
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DevilsAdvocate - if you can find me any NIB (not like NIB, but NIB) target grade SX-1's for less than $800, I will take all you can get. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Prowler found one. Maybe you can get that one
if he doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:02 am 
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I don't believe there is anything special about an SX-1
being new in the box as opposed to just new condition.
It comes down to what is a box worth? In the event you
are buying the gun to shoot, it really makes no sense
to me to pay extra to get one new in the box, because
after you use it, it is no longer new in the box. It
is not even new. Now you have a used SX-1 and a box.
Going even further it makes no sense to me to price
the early ones the same as the later ones. The
early one have the issues that you might have to lay
out money to take care of, so they should not bring
as much money, if you are buying to use it.

If you are buying for posterity, then I guess the
NIB makes sense.

If you are buying to shoot you can get any number
of SX-1s at pretty low prices. The last one I got
was $450 for a new condition stage III gun. Most
of the SX-1s I used I had very little money in.
I have had two that were new condition, an early
one and a late model. The early one cost me $400,
and the late model cost me $450, and I believe that
one is possibly the best deal I got, but maybe not.
I had two used trap models that I had hardly any
money in. One I paid $400 for and it had a release
trigger, and was in perfect shape. I sold the
trigger for 175 and replaced it for $150. Then
I sold the perfect wood off of it for $150 for Monte
Carlo butt stock and $100 for that large target
forearm. Now I was down to $125 in what was left.
I modified an 1100 forearm that I paid $10 bucks
for, and built a butt stock for about $50. So I had
$185 in that gun, and it was my regular shooter.

Another trap model I bought for $450 and it had
an adjustable stock on it. I sold that stock for
$250 and the large forearm for $75. Now I was
down to $125 in that one. I put an 1100 forearm
on it that I got for $20, and a Bishop stock that
I got for about $50. Now I was up to $195 in
that one. I gave that one to one of my sons.
As you can see, I don't fall in love with these
guns, and try to keep them just the way Winchester
made them. Some I bought to use, and some I
bought, just because the price was so low I
could not turn it down. The ones I bought to
use, I put stocks on that fit me. If I used
the Winchester wood I sanded down the checkering
enough to remove the sharp edges, because under
high volume shooting the sharp edges are abrasive
to my hands. That is one reason I like the
Remington forends. They are cheap and have nice
smooth pressed in checkering that is easy on
the hand. It does take about half an hour to
modify one to fit on an SX1 though.

Everyone has their idea on what the gun should
be and how it should be used. I am a function
guy, and that influences what I am willing to
pay, and also the market influences it. You
have to pay what the market asks, pretty much,
but there are plenty of low cost SX1s out
there. The low cost really worked out well
on my last two. The reason is that they were
stolen. In retrospect, it was nice that I
did not lose a lot of money on them.

Prowler pretty much has to figure out what it
takes to suit him. NIB may be just his thing,
but maybe not.

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Sorry for the late reply but ended up in the ER and running around getting tests done. Never had a Super X my thing has always been the Model 12 both Trap and Skeet models. I still use my WM12 Pigeon Trap for registered trap singles.
I figured his asking price was fair and was thinking about it. My right shoulder is shot and needs reconstruction so I figured a Super X would help me out on lower recoil. I am used to buying used guns and the only new ones bought were a Remington 1100 and a 11-87 and also a few rifles. The seller and I go back a long way and am sure I can negotiate the price lower. He told me he purchased a few when Winchester stopped making them so I assume that this would be a later Model 1. I'll get the serial # and firm price by next week and let every one know. Maybe I'll offer a 20 gauge Model 12 WS-1 (Cutts installed) for a trade. Thanks again for all the replys.
Eddie

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:05 pm 
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Sounds like you have everything under control. One point
I might mention, since you have the bad shoulder, your
1100 or 1187 is going to be easier on the shoulder than
an SX1 is, if that is a factor. I shoot these guns alot,
just shot an SX1 and an 1100 today, at trap, and the
1100 is definitely easier on me than an SX1.

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:52 pm 
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Just put a nice modern butt pad on your SX-1 and recoil should be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Even with equivalent recoil pads the 1100/1187 is noticeably
better on recoil, from my observations. I use all modern
pads on my stuff, SX1 and 1100. If there really is a recoil
problem with the shoulder, this could be of significance,
just depends on how bad the problem is.

I have noted SX1 shooters claiming that the SX1 is the
best gun for recoil, and you would think it would be since
it is gas operated and maybe just a bit heavier than
an 1100, but surprisingly it just does not work out in
actual practice. I have wondered about that at times,
and the only answer I can come up with is that it is all
about the weight of the bolts and action sleeves as
to what the difference is. If you examine these parts,
it appears that the moveable parts in an 1100 action
weigh more than those in an SX1. Those moving parts
are possibly key to how much the felt recoil is reduced.

When the gun is recoiling the whole gun starts back
against the shoulder together, but almost instantly
the moving parts in that action; bolt, sleeves, and
action rods disconnect from the gun and move separately.
These parts do not push with the same impulse against
the shooter. These parts instead start compressing
the recoil spring and therefore these parts portion
of the recoil is spread out over a longer time as the
energy is stored in a spring over time. Because these
parts are heavier in an 1100 than they are in an SX1,
and also because the 1100 is maybe a little less weight,
the moving parts make up a bigger percentage of the
gun weight. Since this 1100 larger percentage of recoil is
spread out over a longer time span, while compressing the
spring, it accounts for a larger percentage of recoil
that is not felt by the shooter.

Also the spring strength might be a factor. The SX1
bolt is thrown back much harder than an 1100 bolt,
that is the main reason it is more reliable on cycling.
A side effect of this bolt moving back faster is that
the time that the spring is being compressed is shorter
in an SX1 than in an 1100. The whole idea of that
spring compressing is that it is spreading the recoil
of those parts over a longer time period. If you
shorten the time period, you will also lessen the
amount recoil reduction felt. So here are two possible
explanations of the less felt recoil in an 1100 over
an SX1.

This might be splitting hairs for most shooters, but
I can easily tell the difference in recoil of the two, and
I don't have any shoulder problems. Maybe not
significant, but only the individual shooter will be
able to tell for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:06 am 
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I shot an 1187 Sporting Clays for 7 yrs and shot my X1 for about 9 yrs - I have to agree with DevilsAdvocate that 1187 is smoother - I think it boils down to the X1 in effect hammers bolt back with short sharp shock where as 1187 the whole action moves as one.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:18 pm 
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FYI, there is no serial number list for SX1's.....Jack

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:37 am 
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Location: Long Island ,NY
Well I purchased the Super X Model 1 for the asking price. The gun still had the cosmoline or whatever on it. Got the box, Instruction booklet and hang tag. The sellers friend is a local gunsmith and he took the gun to him to check it over and install a new bolt buffer (free). The stock is a Monte Carlo and fits very good. The fancy wood (to me ) is just really neat. It is not the normal feather crotch type but a tiger stripe with really good matching forearm. It really looks unique as I never saw this type wood pattern on a Winchester before. SXer stated that the serial #'s do not reflect the year made. So how does one determine that. I'll check to see if the trigger is serrated and for the screw in the rib on the muzzel end.
The hang tag has this info:
Winchester Super X Model 1 XTR-Trap
12Ga 30"VR Barrel Full choke
Symbol # GSX 1035XTR-1084

I don't have the gun to get the serial # it is at the gunsmith. If you want I can post a few pictures when I get it.
Thanks for all the help.
Eddie

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:51 am 
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I forgot to mention that basically I am not really worried that much about recoil. I can shoot singles , handy and doubles in registered Trap and then the shoot-off and am not bothered by recoil. I use a Model 12 Trap and Beretta for doubles. I just thought this might help me out with my shoulder problem but Physical therapy has helped a lot and I shot a hundred trap last week for the first time in four months and shot a 96. So hopefully I can avoid surgery. I also shot four rounds of International ( using a wobble trap cranked up) but shot poorly using my Beretta. My timing is off and I was slow on the target and when the trap is cranked up you can't do that. When I get the SX I'll try that or my 1100 or 11-87. For some reason I do not shoot the Remington's like the Winchester and my scores show that. Maybe because the stocks are standard skeet stocks not the MC which I am used to in shooting trap. But time will tell.
Thanks again,
Eddie

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Don't forget to replace the buffer!


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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:51 pm 
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winmod21 wrote:
Don't forget to replace the buffer!


He said that was being done in his 4th sentence of the post telling of the purchase. Get your glasses out :D

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:20 pm 
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I think you will find that with the XTR in the model number that this will be a later model gun. I can't swear to it, but I believe the XTR designation was added later in the production run.

As for year of production, all you can really tell is where it is in the 80,000 or so run of serial numbers. There are no records that show specific serial number ranges associated with specific years of production (to my knowledge)

Best of luck with your new gun

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 10:25 am 
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I finally got the gun on Friday. The Serial # is M 88764. At the club I belong to we have a Int Trap league shoot every Friday morning. So after that I went to another field and shot my Super X for the first time and shot a 95. Was very happy with that. Funny but I had a hard time trying to determine if the recoil was any less then my normal Model 12 trap gun. I guess it is a little less. I will change the Pad and this should help. Now I have to find a shell catcher as I hit the guy on the right side of me a few times and also one shell hit his Perazzi. Got a dirty look but he's OK. I think the gun points just like my Model 12 Trap gun and there was hardly any adjustment on my part. The Monte Carlo comb is ever so slightly high and I will have to take that down a sliver. I am a happy camper with this gun. Three or four other guys from the club took a few shots with it and smoked the targets. Thanks for all the tips.
Eddie

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 Post subject: Re: Super X Model 1
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:47 am 
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There are a couple options for a shell catcher. T&S used to make a clip on one, and may still have a few, but yoy need to have a modified bolt lever to clear the shell catcher. Birchwood Casey makes the stick on one, that is generic and works. I have one of these on my SX-1. It's kind of ugly but it works. This doesn't solve the issue of it throwing hulls during doubles. I don't know if someone could weld on a knock down pin on the barrel. I put a new action spring in my gun and it throws the hulls forward, rather than to the right. Mark



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