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 Post subject: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:21 pm 
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As of today, I have surpassed 500 rounds through my nickel receiver, 28" barrel Ethos. I have shot a wide range of gun weight, shot weight, and muzzle velocity combinations in those 500 rounds.

And if you're like me, you're anxious to turn this beautiful looking semi-auto into a dedicated clays gun. However, the nominal weight of ~6lbs. 9 oz. is just too light for those high volume days on the clays range. No worries, the following post outlines the method I used for converting the Ethos from a field-centric scattergun to a soft shooting clay destroyer. Keep in mind, my definition of a "sporting" gun, for these purposes, is just a gun capable of going several hundred rounds in a short amount of time without causing any discomfort to the shooter.

Here goes.

Step 1: Go shoot your Ethos.

The first step is to shoot your Ethos, at its nominal weight, to find the amount of recoil energy you consider light enough to where all-day shooting is not going to bother you. So get a few boxes of light load, slow speed shells (say 1 oz. 1150 fps), as well as some heavier load, faster speed shells (say 1-1/8 ox. 1200 fps), and a few in between. Find that shell that you feel you could shoot all day with no discomfort.

Step 2: Calculate your maximum recoil energy number.

Now that you've identified the heaviest and/or fastest shell your comfortable shooting high volume, go calculate the recoil energy of that particular shell. A convenient calculator can be found here: http://www.omahamarian.org/trap/shotshellenergy.html

So for example; for me, at nominal weight, I was comfortable at 1 oz. and ~1150 fps which translates to ~19 ft-lbs. of recoil energy. I chose this number as my target recoil energy number. Keep in mind, your number could be very different than mine.

Step 3: Calculate the necessary Ethos weight considering your typical sporting load.

Now that you've identified your target recoil energy number, you need to figure out what weight your Ethos needs to be for your common sporting load to give you your target recoil energy number, or less. In my particular case, I generally have two loads I like to shoot for sporting. A 1 oz. 1250 fps load and a 1-1/8 oz. 1150 fps load.

For the 1 oz. 1250 fps load, I need the Ethos to weigh a little over 7.5 lbs.

For the 1-1/8 oz. 1150 fps load, I need the Ethos to weigh just under 8 lbs.

Keep in mind, your required weight could be different than mine.

Step 4: Add the required weight to your Ethos.

Now that you've got a target weight for your Ethos, you'll need to add weight to either the stock, the forend, or both. This can be done by the following methods.

Adding weight to the stock

Even though the Ethos comes with the Progressive Comfort recoil reduction system, there is still enough of a void in the stock to add a substantial amount of weight (I've gone as high as 12 ounces just in the stock). This picture of the "naked" Ethos shows where the void is located in the stock (it's bracketed in red).

Image

I recommend using lead and/or tungsten fishing weights. The following pictures shows the 12 ounces I stuffed into my Ethos using a combination of lead (circular weights) and tungsten (cylindrical weights) fishing weights.

Image

And here's what they look like stuffed into the stock.

Image

To complete the stock filling process, find an old sock and cut off just the "toe" portion. This will act as a buffer between the progressive comfort system and the weights. It will keep the weights from sliding around while shooting.

Adding weight to the forend

Currently, there are no weighted aftermarket magazine cap weights like there are for other models. The Briley and Graco mag cap weights do not fit the Ethos. (Edit: Briley now offers a weighted end cap: http://www.briley.com/BenelliModularFor ... Ethos.aspx . It is the modular version so you can add as much weight as you'd like to it.) However, Midway sells
magazine "filler" weights (that basically replace the "plug" in the magazine") up to 9 ounces in extra weight. They can be found here: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/887189 ... uctFinding

I'm currently using the 9 ounce version and it's a very quick and easy addition. All you need is a 7/8" wrench to get the magazine spring cap holder off. My guess is you could also just order a steel rod ~7/8" in diameter and ~5 inches in length and get the same result.

Anyways, I put 350 rounds through my Ethos today weighing in at 7 lbs. 15 oz. and it performed flawlessly for all of my sporting loads.

I was able to shoot some lighter loads at this heavy weight and from my estimation, it takes about ~16 ft-lbs. to reliably cycle the Ethos' action. This is still in the initial testing phase and I hope to have more on this later.




Last edited by CFDoc on Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:55 pm
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I have ordered the same gun and will use it for clays and i have several questions.I ordered the ballistic specialties magazine weight,backordered at Midway usa,as for the stock I have a some lead 44 mag bullets that should work. Did you use the shims and if so do you have it shooting flat or 60/40 ,etc.On my M2 and ultra light I had to put a higher front sight on to get a lower point of impact.I use a light 1 oz. shell for 16 yard trap and skeet and a 1 1/8 oz. shell around 1200 fps for handi cap trap and sporting clays.Seems I've developed a flinch ,it only comes out during trap shoots,so I hope to turn mine into a soft shooter.Can't wait to show up for the trap league in April with it after shooting my M 2 camo gun last year.I don't know if my scores will go up but I'll look good doing it.lol Thank you for all the work you put in on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 355
2birddogs wrote:
I have ordered the same gun and will use it for clays and i have several questions.I ordered the ballistic specialties magazine weight,backordered at Midway usa,as for the stock I have a some lead 44 mag bullets that should work. Did you use the shims and if so do you have it shooting flat or 60/40 ,etc.On my M2 and ultra light I had to put a higher front sight on to get a lower point of impact.I use a light 1 oz. shell for 16 yard trap and skeet and a 1 1/8 oz. shell around 1200 fps for handi cap trap and sporting clays.Seems I've developed a flinch ,it only comes out during trap shoots,so I hope to turn mine into a soft shooter.Can't wait to show up for the trap league in April with it after shooting my M 2 camo gun last year.I don't know if my scores will go up but I'll look good doing it.lol Thank you for all the work you put in on this.


Currently, I have not used any of the shims. The gun is still in its stock dimensions. I had originally thought I was going to need the optional raised rib (since both my Cordoba and SuperSport have raised ribs), but I haven't seen a need for it yet.

I haven't done a proper patterning test of the gun, yet. So my guess is that it's shooting 50/50, but I don't know for sure. I plan on shooting some paper maybe this weekend. I'll report the results.

If you've developed a flinch with your M2 (which weighs ~7 lbs.), the Ethos at nominal weight probably isn't going to get rid of it. My advice would be to get your Ethos as heavy as you can stand it. Also, I would reduce the amount of 1-1/8 oz. 1200 fps shells to a minimum.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 36
CFDoc wrote:
I recommend using lead and/or tungsten fishing weights. The following pictures shows the 12 ounces I stuffed into my Ethos using a combination of lead (circular weights) and tungsten (cylindrical weights) fishing weights.

To complete the stock filling process, find an old sock and cut off just the "toe" portion. This will act as a buffer between the progressive comfort system and the weights. It will keep the weights from sliding around while shooting.


All excellent advice here.

With my Benelli and other shotguns I desire to add weight to the stock, I use coated steel wheel weights with an adhesive back.

Image

They can easily be selected for weight by 1/4 ounce increments and are steel and coated so they typically won't tarnish or rust.

They are extremely flexible and the adhesive will keep them in place; after all, they are designed to go on car and truck wheels in all sorts of environments.

I've got my Sport II up to 8 pounds, 4 ounces and it shoots like a dream.

Just another option to look at when adding weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:06 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:21 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Long Island NY
CFD, great info thanks, but if you use the magazine tube weight, how does it stay put. Is it inside the spring or does it compress the spring. It it is inside the spring, doesn't it rattle around? If it compresses the spring, doesn't it make it harder to load shells?
Azraz


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 355
Azraz wrote:
CFD, great info thanks, but if you use the magazine tube weight, how does it stay put. Is it inside the spring or does it compress the spring. It it is inside the spring, doesn't it rattle around? If it compresses the spring, doesn't it make it harder to load shells?
Azraz


The magazine tube weight does compress the spring and sits against the top of the tube. If you get the largest tube, it basically takes the place of two shells in the magazine. I don't think it increases the difficulty in loading shells. If you want to know exactly how it feels, take the limiter plug out of your Ethos and load 4 shells into the magazine. Not very tough at all, really.

There was a slight bit of rattle in the magazine. I fixed that by wrapping a layer of athletic tape around the weight. Fits like a glove now and zero rattling. I think athletic tape is $0.50 per roll at Wal-Mart.

BTW - Cool idea with the wheel weights too.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:32 pm
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If using tape to secure the magazine tube weight or to keep it from rattling, make sure you are using a tape that is 100% vinyl or plastic - like a quality electrical tape. Any tape that is made up of cloth or paper (duct tape, masking tape, etc.), is hygroscopic and will attract and retain moisture.

Both the tube and the feeder magazine spring are steel (on other Benelli's, not sure about the Ethos) and "prone" to rusting.

The Benelli "tactical folks" spend a great deal of effort on polishing their magazine tube interiors to a mirror finish and replace the magazine spring with a stainless spring to reduce the possibility of corrosion and facilitate faster "speed loading" for 3-Gun or the coming Zombie incursion.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:28 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 355
Thanks for the advice, Featherman. I store all of my guns in a low humidity environment; however, I believe I'm going to replace the athletic tape with some electric tape just to be safe.

On another note: have any of you ever teflon (or PTFE in general) coated the bolt rails on your Benelli? Does it work as advertised?


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:55 pm
Posts: 2
CF doc the flinch came from years of shooting mostly an O/U.Sometimes i can catch myself hope lighter shells and softer shooting gun will help.My M 2 fits like it was made for me,taking it to south dakota for snow geese in 11 days not that i'm counting,does the Ethos feel the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:18 pm
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2birddogs wrote:
CF doc the flinch came from years of shooting mostly an O/U.Sometimes i can catch myself hope lighter shells and softer shooting gun will help.My M 2 fits like it was made for me,taking it to south dakota for snow geese in 11 days not that i'm counting,does the Ethos feel the same.


I went from a SuperSport to an Ethos and thought the Ethos felt very comfortable right out of the box. My scores have not dropped at all and I'm still shooting the Ethos in the stock dimensions.

The only difference I've noticed thus far is I do think the trigger sits just a fraction further than the Super Sport. It's not uncomfortable or anything; however, I can notice the pressure being applied to a different portion of my finger.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:21 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Long Island NY
CFD,
Thanks again, I think I will get the tube weight and look at lead filled stock sock. (Say that 3 times)
Where did you here about Teflon coating the bolt rails. Sounds interesting, but how? Teflon tape would not stay put. Is it some kind of semi permanent coating?
I usually just put a very thin layer of grease on the rails and bolt, but that does attract small bits of dirt and debris.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 355
There's teflon products for firearms like: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/Search/Pr ... x?pid=1145

It's definitely not a tape. It's a finish that's applied to the metal. I also use CLP on my rails. I was just wondering if the teflon finish worked as advertised (reduced friction, easy to clean, prevents rust, doesn't wear off, etc.).


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:21 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Long Island NY
The Brownlls site say you have to spray it on and then bake it. I don't think you'd be able to just spray it on the rails, maybe just the sides of the bolt. I don't think I would want to put any part of my gun in the oven, I'll stick to the light coating of gun grease.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:49 pm 
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After playing around with the numbers, I think it's important to point out that when doing Steps 2 and 3 outlined above it is very important that you use the same recoil calculator for all of your energy calculations.

For example, the recoil calculator I linked in the first post assumes a 18 grains of powder, 33 grain wad, and a constant 4700 fps for powder gas velocity (some people use 1.7 times muzzle velocity instead). Changing these numbers can significantly change the recoil energy calculation.

Because for this exercise you're only interested in changes due to shot weight, muzzle velocity, and gun weight, these are the only parameters that need to be changed when analyzing gun setup A versus gun setup B. If you happen to be going back and forth between recoil calculators, there's no guarantee that your numbers are consistent.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:21 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Long Island NY
Is it possible to put too much weight on the gun to interfere with cycling? All the calculation above are great, but I was just going to add ~12 oz the the stock / magazine to accomplish a softer recoil. I am not that scientific, just want it not to kick as much, although I dot think the kick is all that bad. Maybe after a full day on sporting corse I will feel different.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:52 pm 
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Azraz wrote:
Is it possible to put too much weight on the gun to interfere with cycling?


Sure it is, but are you shooting 7/8 oz. loads?

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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:21 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Long Island NY
Never 7/8 oz, the lowest I go is 1 oz, my most common load is 1 1/8, but I do not want to wreck my shoulder either. I get whatever is the cheapest since I do not reload.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:26 pm 
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Changing the weight of the Ethos can/will interfere with the inertia action. My next endeavor is to try and quantify these effects.

However, the amount of recoil energy needed to reliably cycle the action depends on certain, ever changing, variables. These include the stiffness of the recoil spring (which gets less stiff as you shoot more rounds), the amount of friction between the bolt and the rails (which I've found to be an extremely sensitive factor for light load shooting), and the amount of gunk build up in the rails after high volume shooting.

This is one of the reasons I asked about the Teflon coating of the rails for a Benelli. Teflon has an ultra-low friction coefficient. My experiences suggest dry rails won't reliably cycle light loads (in my SuperSport, haven't tested the Ethos conclusively), but lubed rails (that lower fricition coefficients) have zero problems with light loads. Thus, a low friction Teflon coating seems like a good idea for these guns.

So far, with the Ethos, I have had zero malfunctions with a gun weight of ~ 8lbs., lubed rails, and loads as light at 1 oz. and 1200 fps. I cannot comment on 7/8 oz. loads at this time.


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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:10 pm 
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I figured I'd update the progress on my Ethos regarding the usage of this gun as a high volume sporting gun. Long story short, I've been able to get my Ethos over 9 lbs. in weight (recall the nominal weight was just over 6.5 lbs.) while still maintaining the ability to very reliably cycle "light" loads. For me, a "light" load is 1oz. at ~1200 fps.

Admittedly, I have modified the gun somewhat extensively to be able to achieve this feat; however, I will discuss the weight/load limitations of this gun with minimal alteration as well as with extensive modification. Here goes.

Weight/Load Limitations with Minimal Alteration

This outline pretty much follows what I described in the first post of this thread. Tungsten weights in the stock combined with the Midway 9 oz. magazine weight gives you an Ethos just under 8 lbs. At this weight, loads as light as 1oz. at 1150 fps cycled just fine and was a very soft shooter. 1-1/8 oz. at 1200 fps was also a reliable soft shooter. Honestly, I could leave the Ethos at this weight and be fine from here on out. However, I wanted to really try to find the limits of this gun. I wanted to see just how fat I could get this gun and still shoot "light" loads. That venture is outlined next.

Weight/Load Limitations with Significant Alteration

In order to get an Ethos to exceed 9 lbs. in weight, you will need to work exclusively with tungsten fishing weights in the stock. From my experience, using tungsten is the only way to get the minimum 16 oz. of required weight in the stock. Doing this gets you 1 lb. closer to the 2.5 lbs. that are needed to reach a 9 lb. gun.

Now comes the magazine. The Midway weight only weighs 9 oz. and that's just not enough. In order to get 24 oz. in the magazine tube, you need to purchase a steel bar, 7/8" in diameter at least 9 inches long. I just ordered a 12" long, low carbon steel rod from McMaster-Carr. It was cheap and delivered promptly for a grand total of $9.35. Here's the exact rod I ordered: http://www.mcmaster.com/#9120k39/=tfc2im . Cutting this rod was very easy. I just used a hack saw and cut it to 9" long. This rod will weight right at 1.5 lbs. and will give you the total 2.5 lbs. necessary to get the Ethos up to a 9 lb. gun.

The bad part about adding this rod is that your magazine will no longer be able to hold more than a single shell in it. Therefore, you've only got two shots; however, that's not usually a problem for sporting clays.

The other issue with adding this steel rod into the magazine is that the stock tube spring won't suffice anymore. You must replace the spring with an adequate alternative or cut the original spring by a large amount. I chose to find an alternative spring. So after some measuring and calculating, I found a replacement spring again at McMaster-Carr; however, you will have to cut this spring for use. The spring I ordered can be found here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#9637k31/=tfc60j . For less than $12, you can get 5 of these springs. I recommend getting a box of 5 springs so you can experiment with the length necessary to operate the Ethos.

I cut the spring using my Dremel and the metal cutting wheel. It was very easy to do. The unstretched length of spring that worked for me was ~4.25". So if you can image the magazine tube going from the section closest to the trigger and moving towards the barrel, the parts go: red stopper, cut spring, 9" long steel tube, threaded cap.

The following photo shows the various weight additions possible inside the magazine tube. On top of the photo is (obviously) the Ethos with the magazine tube exposed. Directly underneath the magazine tube is the setup for the heaviest weight (modified spring and steel rod from McMaster-Carr). At the bottom of the photo is the stock magazine spring with the Midway weight. Hopefully this clears up the process for this alteration.

Image

Now your Ethos weighs 9 lbs. At this weight, the reliability of the inertia action depended on the shell. 1 oz. 1290 fps Winchester AA's cycled no problems. Also, 1 oz. 1290 fps Estate's cycled just fine. However, 1-1/8 oz. 1200 fps Federals would not cycle. I'm not sure what the deal is with Federals, but these shells would not cycle even though they should be more powerful than the AA's and Estate's. Anyways, what I had learned was that at 9 lbs. the action was getting shaky and wouldn't cycle 1 oz. 1200 fps at all. So I needed further modification.

The last and final modification necessary to make a 9+ lb. Ethos cycle "light" loads was to modify the recoil spring. Oddly enough, the "weak" Wolff spring is still stiffer than the stock recoil spring that comes in the Ethos (no wonder they advertise 7/8 oz. cycling capabilities). So what I did was order the "weak" Wolff recoil spring from here: http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/ ... 42249.aspx .

After getting this spring, you guessed it, I had to cut it. So out came the Dremel again, and I cut the Wolff spring down to ~9.25" and installed it into my recoil tube.

The following photo shows the modifications done to the recoil spring. The top is (obviously) the Ethos with the recoil tube exposed. Directly underneath the recoil tube is the modified Wolff spring that I installed. At the bottom is the stock recoil spring that came with the Ethos.

Image

Finally, after all this, I now have a 9~ lb. Ethos that cycles "light" loads with zero problems and is one of the softest shooting guns I've ever handled.


Last edited by CFDoc on Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Converting the Ethos from a field gun to a sporting gun.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:21 pm 
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Wow very informative write up! I think I will follow suit once I obtain my Ethos.



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