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 Post subject: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:58 am 
Hey Ruger Lovers!

Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com:

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=25611116




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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:40 pm 
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No trigger guard tang, hump back reciever, screw chokes on a side by side, heavy as all get out (probably muzzle heavy too...), dull decoration, and strangely expensive for it's appearence... Yep, it's a Ruger.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976504895.htm

This is about 1000 times the gun that Ruger is... and for less. Notice the reserve is not met on the Ruger...

Nick

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:16 pm 
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6 lb. 5 ounces is heavy? For a 12 ga.? Since when? The reviews I've seen say the gun is very well balanced. It's been compared to a good English game gun on Shooting Sportsman's board as far as balance and weight. Like the Red Label, some love the looks of the Gold Label, some don't. Most of the talk I've heard is very, very positive on the price/value equation.

There's a hands on review of the Gold Label on this forum right now. Very informative. Some can people appreciate a potential new American made classic, others can't :shock: , for whatever reason...

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:10 pm 
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I would love to have one, but I wouldn't pay more than MSRP for one. When they become widely available, and they will, any gun shop will order them for 10% over cost. I've waited this long, some more waiting won't hurt me.


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:25 pm 
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$2150 and the reserve is not met? :shock: For less than that you could have this... http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=25901975
NO CONTEST! (IMO :wink: )

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:50 pm 
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Or this

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976152946.htm

or this

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976245259.htm

or this

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976436135.htm

or this

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976456859.htm

I could go on...

Nick

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:32 pm 
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Phideaux_2003,

As a moderator here you should understand that this forum is for Ruger LOVERS, not bashers... as in "I love my Ruger". What about that do you not understand :roll: ?

Please take your bashing (flaming/trolling? :shock: ) self back to the topic you moderate, and leave this one for those of us that use it as intended. Thank you :D .

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:23 pm 
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Is a little friendly discussion about the gun that you are, so apparently, in love with a problem? Please, change my mind, and perhaps in the process, educate a few others.

Nick

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:44 pm 
You can give a man a fish and feed him for a night. You can TEACH a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime.------------------You can teach a man a life of crime and he may feed the fishes.


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:27 pm 
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phideaux_2003,

What's the purpose of a trigger guard tang? Why do we need a humpback receiver? What do you have against screw in choke tubes? I don't think I would want to shoot a 12 gauge that was less than 6 1/2 pounds all day in a dove field. Dull decoration? Maybe you want shiny engraving and gold dogs when you're at the trap and skeet club to impress the others, but in a hunting situation, dull is better. Strangely expensive for it's appearence? I think the Red Label is the most attractive O/U in it's price range. The Beretta Whitewing is about the same price at the BPS here, and has that awful stamped engraving, and the high gloss wood. Makes it look like plastic to me. Since you know that the Gold Label is muzzle heavy and unbalanced, then we can all assume that you've shot one? Or did you get that opinion based on looking at a picture. We've all heard you're criticisms, now back them up with some facts. We don't need to change your mind, this is a Ruger forum. Change ours.


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:45 pm 
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I didn't mean to cause such a stink. I was just stating my opinion about a particular product.

As for your questions...

The trigger guard tang gives the straight stock rigidity. Look at any English gun with a straight stock and it will have a long tang.

We don't need a humpback reciever. The Gold label has one. Personally I think it is ugly as all get out, but from a sheer utilitarian stand point, the humpback reciever curves the over all shape of the stock, which in turn takes away rigidity. So in true Ruger fashion, it is going to give a little and it will eventually wobble loose or even worse, break.

I have nothing against screw in chokes. I just think that on a gun that is supposed to be a traditional, throw back, nastalgic (sp?) type weapon, fixed chokes are a better choice. Besides, for a hunting gun, as you pointed out it was, all you need is a tight Mod and a loose IC. If you can't make the shot with those, it is either out of range or you have the wrong load for the quarry.

6 pounds 8 oz. is heavy in my book. That may be because I'm used to shooting 20 guages, but to me that is still heavy. My buddy's 12 guage BL-4 is only 6 pounds...

Yes I think that the decoration is dull, if you can call it decoration. There isn't anything on it. A Baikal has more decoration than the Rugers. My Stevens 311 at LEAST has case hardening on it. I mean they could have at least blued it with that thin little layer of bluing Ruger is renouned for. Shiny engraving and gold dogs doesn't impress me either, but wouldn't you rather look at a painted wall than plain dry wall? And it has been proven that shiny guns/glasses/binoculars/whatever don't have any affect on the hunt, no matter what you are hunting. (David E. Petzel June 2004 Field and Stream)

That is fine that you think it is the most attractive gun in it's price range. All I said is that I didn't like it. I don't have to agree with you.

The Whitewing is an O/U dude. We are talking about SxS's.

You are right the glossy wood on the WW's does look like plastic. That is why I don't own one.

I have not shot a Gold Label, but I have held one, and yes, again in true Ruger fashion, it is muzzle heavy.

This is a Ruger forum, that is why I came here expecting to learn of my mistakes, but I have yet to hear any lessons.

Nick

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:55 pm 
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http://www.luvtohunt.com/index.htm

This guy carry's Gold Label's for $1500.

Nick

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:27 pm 
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P_2003,

If you think that 6.5 lb. is heavy for a 12 ga., you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I understand that it's 6 lb. 5 oz., but we're splitting hairs there. How and why would anyone trust your opinion/observation about the GL being muzzle heavy if you are so misinformed about what is or isn't heavy for a 12 ga.? BTW, there are so few GL's out there right now, I find it hard to believe that you have held one, especially when in your post from Tuesday Nov. 23 you said it was "PROBABLY muzzle heavy, too...". Have you held one, or are you just making it up :o ? Unless you've held one in the last two days, me thinks you're just talking!

OK, let's talk guns you may actually know a tiny bit about :P . You claim to have a Stevens 311. I own two of them. My 16 ga. 311A weighs right at 7 lb w/28" barrels. My 311H 12 ga. weighs closer to 8 lb w/30" barrels. Hardly light weight field guns. Both of mine have the fixed chokes you prefer. However you say you want to see a "traditional" hunting gun, and if you didn't realize it, many, if not most older SxS are choked modified and full. Certainly not all of them, but many. Even today many of the better known SxS are still choked that way. If you're that stuck up on tradition, why not complain about the lack of double triggers, which MIGHT be a legitimate complaint. Or did you not notice that when you had this alleged "holding" of the GL? You're so knowledgeable, and such a traditionalist, surely you would have picked up on that right away :roll: !

Two final thoughts on the subject of double guns. Fine English game guns have always been noted to have good balance, but with a wee bit of "tippiness", i.e. slightly muzzle heavy. Also, 6.5 lb. is considered by many SxS experts to be the PERFECT weight for a 12 ga.

You say you came to the Ruger forum to learn of your mistakes and take lessons, well there you go :shock: . Now please take your moderating (?) self back to your own forum. Leave this one to those it's intended, Ruger lovers. And if you MUST return, please bring valid, informed thought with you, instead of the drivel you've been spewing that smells of trolldom.
:wink:
Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:30 am
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p_2003,
I was comparing the Beretta Whitewing to my Ruger Red Label. They are both O/U's....dude. If you don't think that anything shiny or glaring in the sun will cause a dove or crow or anything else that flies into range to execute manuvers that would shame the Blue Angels, then all your hunting experience must come from Field and Stream. I have a little bit of experience with hunting shotguns, and I, for one, like to have more than a tight Mod and a loose IC. I think you need to read some more before you declare hunting experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:50 am 
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Ok... daddywpb, Dude, you were misinformed from the beginning. We are talking about SxS's not O/U's. So I'll just disregard that first statment of yours. Second, I'm not the one who said that shiny objects don't effect the hunt, although I know that as well. David E. Petzel, renounded outdoor writer said that, so if that isn't enough for you, then well, you are kinda... well, I won't go there. Also, I am a firm believer that if you can't hit it with a loose IC or a tight Mod, you shouldn't be shooting at it. That is my personal opinion and your difference is accepted on this end, but please, give me the right to mine. Also, I may be young, but I have a lot, A LOT of hunting experience, and knowledge logged in my brain and just about anyone around here can attest to that.

Now for txgspdad... Again, most everything I have stated was stated as opinion, so please give the right to disagree. The GL is 6 lbs 5 oz, and like I said, being used to 20 gauges, and fine English doubles, that seemed heavy to me. Also, precieved weight can be varied due to lack of proper balance. Just for you information, I have handled one. I held one at the Reliant Center Gun show 2 weekends ago. I don't know why I said probably, but I have handled one, and YES they are muzzle heavy.

As for the guns that I "may actually know a tiny bit about", my Stevens 311A weighs 6.5 lbs. with 26" bbl. Now, that is a Stevens 311, which is not a "high quality" gun. They are readily available at gun shows for less the $350. This "fine gun" is marked at over $2200!!! As I posted, there are many MANY guns in that price range that weigh much MUCH less. Fine guns are made better and of better material, I'm sure we can agree on that. Thus, it would be reasonable to assume that some would be made to be light, correct? Well, if this GL is supposed to be such a high quality gun, why does it weight nearly the same (Taking into account the difference in barrel lengths) as my Stevens?

The chokes... First of all, chokes varied from gun to gun depending on gauge, barrel length and chamber length. Most 16 gauges were Mod, and Full, but most 20's were IC and Mod, while 12's varied evenly between IC Mod and Full. To say that MOST older SxS's are M/F is just wrong. Then you have to take into account the loads they were shooting back then. Seeing as how many of the hotter powders weren't developed until the last half century, we have to assume that they were shooting pretty low pressure, slow burning loads. Now, if you know your balistics correctly, slow, low pressure loads give the choke more liscense and time to affect the shot cup while it is passing through the constricted area. So, it is safe to assume that, back then, with the slow, low pressure loads, one would need a full choke to make, say, a 35 yard shot, where as today, with hotter powders, one would only need a modified. Hot loads shoot tighter patterns, hence the reason Turkey loads are so stout. You want as tight a pattern as possible, and there is only so much a choke can do. So your next statment that many of today's SxS's are still choked that way is also wrong... most guns today, with fixed chokes, that are not custom, have chokes selected according to barrel length.

24"-26" = IC and Mod
28"-30" = Mod and Full
32"-34" = Full and Full (If not extra full)

The lack of double triggers is an issue I've given up on. People just don't see the practicality in them any more. I love double trigs, but many people find them intimidating. I did pick up on that, but decided not to mention it.

All the fine English guns I've ever held have been perfectly balance to a point that one could hold it out on one finger just under the reciever, which is the normal balance point, as opposed to the hinge that many people like to taut. I have handled and shot many fine guns and even owned a couple, but none were barrel heavy.

Nick

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:24 am 
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There's stuff logged in there all right, dude, but I'm not sure it's knowledge. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:47 pm 
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P_2003,

Your Stevens 311A is obviously not a 12 ga., or you're using some kind of Aggie scale (Hook 'em Horns!!) :lol: . Ruger isn't asking $2200 for the GL, but some dealers think there's enough demand to get that price :shock: . No one here has stated that the gun was attractive at that price at this point in time. In fact daddywpb stated he wouldn't pay over MSRP, and I agree.

So you held a GL, huh. That must mean you "misquoted" yourself then. I didn't see you handle the GL, but I darn sure read your thread. As many times as you've posted on here, I seriously doubt if you typed a statement incorrectly. When you said the GL was "probably" muzzle heavy, you inferred that you hadn't handled one, and you didn't go back and edit your statement, at least not yet. Now you say you HAVE handled it :? . I'll go with the black and white of it. Admit it, you're pulling our collective Ruger leg, aren't you? It must feel pretty uncomfortable to have caught yourself in a "misquote" that is in print for all to see :oops: .

I'll say it again. If you think 6.5 lb. is heavy for a 12 ga., you don't know what you're talking about. Period. As for your claim that the GL is muzzle heavy or heavy in general, I defer to the true experts that have weighed in on other more objective boards, and Chris Weller on this one, who totally disagree with you. People who have actually handled and/or shot the gun. Oh, that's right, so have you :roll: .

Your statement that I'm incorrect about many, if not most older SxS being choked full/modified... well that shouldn't even be dignified with a response. The people who know the truth know it. You don't.

You've dug yourself quite a hole here. Why don't you crawl out of it and go away. There's plenty of other forums that can use your type expertise. Go rip the Remington board about their autoloaders possibly being unreliable. The Mossberg people would love to defend their inexpensive pumps. The Beretta boys enjoy discussing the occasional POI and barrel issues. Benelli lovers need to revisit the will they/won't they shoot 2.75" shells debate about SBE's. You could have a field day on the DeHaan board. And if you really want to have fun, go talk to Worc on the Browning forum and tell him the Gold Hunter has a deservedly bad reputation. Whatever you do, just go away :D .

Steve

PS. I do not personally advocate any of the issues implied above about Remington, Mossberg, Beretta, Benelli, DeHaan, or Browning products... just making a point to a troll.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:57 pm 
phideaux_2003 wrote:
http://www.luvtohunt.com/index.htm

This guy carry's Gold Label's for $1500.

Nick


Listed at $1500, but none in stock-that's like saying my prices are lower than anyone's,but I can't sell you one!


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:30 pm 
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is probably not for you."---------------Remind me not to buy a parachute from any garage sales!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Label SxS for sale on GunBroker.com
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:13 pm 
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Well ok txgspdad, I just wanted to learn a little bit about why people like Rugers, but evidently you are just going to bad mouth me. I have a reputation around here, in my family, and in my community as being one of the go to guys when it comes to guns, especially shotguns, and DOUBLE especially when it comes to double guns, and TRIPLE especially when it come to SxS's. SxS's are my specialty. I have held, shot and owned Purdey's, Holland and Hollands, Westley Richards, Ward and Son's, W.W. Greeners, Merkels, Krieghoffs, Brownings, Berettas and a menagerie of other guns that are considered to be the best in the world. I have studied them, inspected them, tested them, even learned how to make them, (to an extent). txgspdad, I have a very distinct idea about that a fine shotgun is. There are many features that contibute to that idea. Of the most important features, I mentioned a few in my first post on this thread. I stated that I didn't believe that this weapon was up to snuff. Believe it or not, there are people around here and elsewhere who actually care about what I have to say on topics such as these. If you don't agree with me, fine. I've stated that these are just my opinions, but you insist that I have stated them as fact. You are relatively new to the forum and I suppose I will just forget this. I'm sure you are a nice person, but this is a friendly forum, and we'd appreciate it if you would try, along with the rest of us, to keep it that way.

Thank you

Nick



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