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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:16 pm 
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I like that everyone is pretty much in agreement that these guys are assholes and deserve to pay.

But I want to take this all a step further to suggest that even if someone was destroying or stealing property, it doesn't deserve a death sentence.

To me, guns are self-defense weapons ONLY. You only fire them if someone is threatening your welfare or the welfare of someone else. Property theft, to me, doesn't constitute self-defense.


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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:32 pm 
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+1 on NO Deadly Force protection of property. In my state (Oregon) it is against the law and I'm glad.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:49 pm 
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I'm not going to shoot someone over stuff. However, If they are stealing from me, I'm not going to hide in a corner, I'll confront them, tell them to hold still and wait for the cops, and if they do something threatening, then it's self defense.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:00 pm 
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TempestV wrote:
I'm not going to shoot someone over stuff. However, If they are stealing from me, I'm not going to hide in a corner, I'll confront them, tell them to hold still and wait for the cops, and if they do something threatening, then it's self defense.



Copy that.

Rob

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:53 am 
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This is spiralling OT, but I agree with not shooting someone over a toaster, but DESTROYING property is very different, and very vague. Setting fire to your house (with your family in it), smashing your windows in, kicking in a door, and yes, breaching a levee (which the family in this story were not, btw), are all property damage, not property theft. In theory the property theft or self-defense argument is pretty much summed up in what Mom used to tell us "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." In any case, it's a personal decision that I will not propose to make for anyone else. I know the laws for where I am, and I guarantee to shoot to stop whatever is in my legal right.

Either way, we are all in agreement that this tragedy should have never happened. If I was anti-gun, this is great fodder for requiring a federal license to even own a gun.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:44 pm 
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TempestV wrote:
I'm not going to shoot someone over stuff. However, If they are stealing from me, I'm not going to hide in a corner, I'll confront them, tell them to hold still and wait for the cops, and if they do something threatening, then it's self defense.


Be sure to check YOUR state laws. In some places you can't use deadly force on someone who's trying to get away from you, because they're not considered a threat. What do you do if they start to run away?

In some places, if you choose to pursue a burgler who is fleeing -- trying to avoid a confrontation -- they might be able to legally shoot you in self-defense. You become the attacker as soon as he leaves your house and you follow.

Again, just know what your laws allow.


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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:31 pm 
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NHrural wrote:
Be sure to check YOUR state laws. In some places you can't use deadly force on someone who's trying to get away from you, because they're not considered a threat. What do you do if they start to run away?

In some places, if you choose to pursue a burgler who is fleeing -- trying to avoid a confrontation -- they might be able to legally shoot you in self-defense. You become the attacker as soon as he leaves your house and you follow.

Again, just know what your laws allow.


In my state, if I justifiably feel that my life, or the life of someone else is in danger, I can use deadly force. In this case, I do not shoot until they do something threatening. In other words, if I tell them to hold their hands in the air and back up, and they reach down instead, my first though is going to be that they were reaching for a gun or knife. If I come around the corner, and they are hauling a$$ out the door with my TV, I'm not going to shoot. If they take off running when they see me, I'm not going to shoot. However, if they run 10 feet and duck behind the table, then they are a threat. It's within the law in this state, and it is exactly what I would do even in a castle doctrine state.

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* Combine a 3 meter arming range with a 2 meter burst lethal radius and you can see why no one's going to be room clearing with FRAG-12 rounds.


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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:52 pm 
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Storydude wrote:
No Billed.

ORLY?

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/ ... -2009.html
Quote:
Liberty couple indicted for murder in boy's shooting death
By THE HOUSTON CHRONICLE
June 5, 2009
Posted: June 5, 2009, 10:18 AM CDT

A Liberty County couple has been indicted for murder and other charges after police say they shot at a family returning from an outing along the Trinity River last month.

A 7-year-old boy, who was shot in the head, died at the hospital on May 9, two days after the shooting.

Gale and Sheila Muhs, both 45, each were indicted Wednesday on one charge of murder and seven counts of attempted murder in the shooting that occurred in the Westlake area about 9 p.m. on May 7.

Donald Coffey Jr. died. The boy's father, Donald Coffey, 37, and 5-year old sister, Destiny, and a family friend, Patrick Cammack, 30, were wounded.

The Muhses were arrested May 8 at their home near the river and are in the Liberty County jail.

Sheila Muhs reportedly called 911 after the shootings and told the dispatcher, "They're running over our levee in big-wheel vehicles, and I shot them."

Investigators said the victims were riding in a sport utility vehicle and a Jeep and were passing in front of the Muhses' house when the couple came outside with their 12-gauge shotgun and shouted for those in the vehicles to "get out."

Immediately afterward, the couple took turns firing one shot each, investigators said.

Donald Jr. was hit in the face, Cammack was wounded in the neck, and Destiny and her father were treated for pellet wounds.

Authorities estimated the Muhses were about 40 yards from the four victims, who were unarmed, when the shots were fired.

The group was returning from joy riding near a levee and swimming in the Trinity River and had pulled over on a road near the Muhses' home.

The road runs between the Muhses' house and the levee surrounding a lake. Investigators say the public has access to the road and levee.

Cammack's wife, Cindy Nelton, and Donald Jr.'s mother, Becky Coffey, were riding in the vehicles but were not injured. Another family member and a friend also were in the vehicles and were not hurt.

Now, are you going to tell the GJ they're wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:13 pm 
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This is inexcusable. My heart goes out to these families. I hope that inmate justice will prevail.


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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:24 pm 
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For the love of jeebus, shooter. You sure are reanimating a lot of threads tonight.

Seriously, glad these dirtbags were indicted. I hope they are found guilty and do a lot of time.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:16 pm 
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Recent event got me thinking about this one and I wanted to see what happened to the tweakers.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:27 am 
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About 10 years ago somebody was stealing gas at my house..One night I heard something outside and went outside with a SS 12 and a old 32 H&R to check it out. I was standing by a tree when it hit me....Was anything out in my yard worth getting shot in the leg......Much less getting killed for.I laughed out loud at how foolish it was to risk my life for a few gallons of gas!My place was to be inside protecting my wife and kids..


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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:16 am 
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sjohnny wrote:
...I hope they are found guilty and do a lot of time.


I hope they are found guilty and get "the needle"!

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:45 am 
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m24shooter wrote:
Recent event got me thinking about this one and I wanted to see what happened to the tweakers.


I didn't see any way they were going to get no billed but it is Liberty County and they do things a little different there.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:44 am 
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bossharp wrote:
About 10 years ago somebody was stealing gas at my house..One night I heard something outside and went outside with a SS 12 and a old 32 H&R to check it out. I was standing by a tree when it hit me....Was anything out in my yard worth getting shot in the leg......Much less getting killed for.I laughed out loud at how foolish it was to risk my life for a few gallons of gas!My place was to be inside protecting my wife and kids..

There's anther school of thought to this. If you let the turds pillage the outside of your house they may decide to see what is inside and I'd much rather have an outside shoot out than an inside shootout. Of course local laws may prohibit this.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:57 am 
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Location: Taunton Somerset. ENGLAND and country gone two the dogs.
they should not be aloud two live,a young boy died for nothing his life in front of him.


and what was the out come of it all.any one know.

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Last edited by shotgun12 on Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:04 pm 
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They just got indicted in June. It will take some months before it actually goes to trial most likely. They may be offered a deal by the prosecutor that would speed it up. It may get fast tracked by the prosecutor and judge.
It is still fairly early in the process.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:53 pm 
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liljake82 wrote:
There's anther school of thought to this. If you let the turds pillage the outside of your house they may decide to see what is inside and I'd much rather have an outside shoot out than an inside shootout. Of course local laws may prohibit this.

This is the school I attend. If I can keep the turds from coming in the house my family is all the more safe.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:54 pm 
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Someone keep up with this matter, please. I am interested in the outcome. In NC these two perps would be charged with murder one. I live in NC where there is no Castle Doctrine. You may not fire on a person to protect property, even inside your house. Not to say, i wouldn't. I hope I never find out. You may fire on a person only when life is imminently in danger, where there is means and opportunity for an intruder to take a life or inflict injury.

I have tried to get my legislators to consider the Castle Doctrine but no interest thus far.

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 Post subject: Re: "Tresspass" shooting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:47 pm 
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In Texas you can use deadly force to protect property in limited instances. I don't remember seeing families driving on a levee that's not on your property as one of the listed justifications for deadly force in the Texas Penal Code. Killing a 7 year old is Capital Murder. The death penalty could be an option (and I believe would be appropriate in this case).

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