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Jack, I also vote for the Benelli Vinci. Good luck!




North American Hunter, October 2009: "Benelli really did come up with the shotgun of the future. The Vinci is so balanced that it is like shooting a high-dollar, fitted, over/under shotgun. Muzzle jump was slight, and I could get back on targets as fast as I could pull the trigger. I shot 170 boxes of shotshells, 4250 shots, without a malfunction. The Vinci is one of the best-swinging, fastest-pointing wing guns I have ever used."

American Hunter, September 2009: "The Vinci is a gun that must be shot for its ergonomics to be appreciated. It just feels pointable. To shoot this gun is to love it. It balances between the hands, where it should. Recoil was quite negligible. I put 7550 rounds of dove loads (more than 300 boxes) through the Vinci and had zero failures to feed. Extended magazine tubes will be available in the future. The recoil spring is relocated into the receiver behind the new In-Line Inertia-Driven bolt, allowing for a variety of stocks in the future."

Hunting, September 2009: "The Vinci carries like a 28, recoils like a 20, and shoots like a 12. I averaged shooting the Vinci six hours per day under dusty field conditions for three consecutive days, without cleaning, and my fired-shell count was 6375 rounds. A virtual absense of muzzle jump makes doubles on doves easy; triples or fours required only concentration. I've been shooting shotguns for so long that it takes something far beyond the ordinary to excite me, but I had to occasionally pinch myself that I was actually shooting the Vinci rather than just dreaming about it. The light, recoil-operated Vinci is a softer-shooting shotgun than heavier, gas-operated autoloaders. And since the barrel and the receiver are ridgedly joined together, the Vinci will be incredibly accurate with slugs."

Mr. Randy Wakeman, member of ShotGunWorld, September, 2009: "The Vinci is the most significant advance in the autoloading hunting shotgun in the last fifty years, defining balanced hunting performance and reliability. Forearm nut issues are gone. Barrel ring and barrel hangar issues are gone. Hot barrel elongation issues are gone. Stress to the magazine tube are gone. Forearm vibration inflicted on the shooter is gone. Cracked gas pistons, fractured struts, and broken breechblock links are gone, as are rusty mainsprings and bent mainspring tubes. Balance issues and rattles associated with long underbarrel linkages, rods, and action parts are gone as well. They are all gone for good, and all associated issues are now off the table as well. The inline action, integrated with the barrel itself, does all this. The Vinci is exceedingly comfortable to shoot for its weight, and gets even more impressive as the payloads and velocities are upped. It is an inspired design, destined to be amplified and further explored. The Vinci well should be the springboard platform for an entirely new line of shotguns. It brings the field autoloader to a whole new level."

Shooting Times, September 2009: "On the first day out, I fired 2200 rounds with not a single malfunction of the Vinci. That's 88 boxes of shells without a single bobble! And unlike a gun that refuses to fire when the trigger is squeezed unless the bolt first slams noisily forward, the Vinci autoloader will fully lock up even when the bolt is gently and quietly eased forward on a chambered round. That feature came in handy one morning before daylight during a turkey hunt, when I forgot to chamber a round before sneaking up about sixty yards from a flock of roosting birds. And good news for deer hunters, turkey hunters, and especially duck hunters, who have to walk a long way across the marshes with a load of gear: quick-detachable sling-swivel posts are molded into the buttstock and forearm. And the modular stock has no recoil spring tube so it could be switched with a possible future tactical stock, with the extended grip preferred by some turkey hunters and by those in law enforcement."

Sporting Clays, September 2009: "One Benelli staffer on our dove hunting trip to Argentina shot one Vinci 20000 times in eight days with essentially no malfunctions. And using the low finger grooves on the wider, rear portion of the fore-end is ideal when a lot of swing is required for the target presented, while using the higher finger grooves farther away along the thinner, front portion of the fore-end is ideal for pointing out straightaway targets."

Turkey Country, September 2009: "I expect a shorter-barreled turkey Vinci. I appreciated the greatly reduced recoil as the Vinci with an X-Full choke produced excellent patterns with Federal, Remington, and Winchester turkey loads. Based on conversations with others, it slams turkeys down with authority. I shot one more than 4000 times on a dove hunt in Argentina, and it is a joy to carry, being lightweight and perfectly balanced."

Shotgun News, August 2009: "The camo patterns being offered indicate that the Vinci is being marketed toward the waterfowler. Everyone seems to ask why this gun was not offered in 3.5" 12 gauge. The Super Black Eagle has been a hugely successful gun, and remains king of the Benelli line. My guess is that Benelli sees no need to cut into SBE sales by offering the less expensive Vinci in 3.5" configurations. If you are concerned solely with bagging the maximum number of birds with maximum speed and comfort, pick the Vinci."

Guns & Ammo, July 2009: "In eight days, our twelve Vincis pounded through 87950 shells. There were no malfunctions that I saw, save for a few duds with some local Argentina ammo that we had. Some guys are going to be wishing for a 3.5" version of this one. Not me. Benelli has already got a pretty good platform for those mega-twelves with the Super Black Eagle II. And even if you are a fanatic turkey or goose hunter, I will never be convinced that there is enough advantage in 3.5" shells to make up for the kick and cost factors. And the hoary contention of many shotgunners that Benelli inertia guns kick more than gas guns is a dead issue, because the ComforTech Plus buttstock chevron system works. The only discomfort I had was a bit of tiredness from hoisting the light 6.9 pound Vinci to my shoulder a few thousand times in three days. It's a safe bet that there will be offshoots from the Vinci, for example, a ported clays model, a tactical variant, and a rifled-barrel saboted slug version could only be the beginning."

I like the action design better on the Vinci than the M1, M2, or SBE. It's preferable to keep the recoil spring inside the action just like an AK instead of going down into the stock like an AR (just my opinion). I would imagine Benelli might try to modify the design to accommodate 3.5" shells at some point. I think the Vinci design could be modified into a tactical shotgun, but they'd have to address the magazine tube design, which currently doesn't allow for magazine extensions. I'm also not sure how the extra light weight design would hold up on a combat type shotgun.

Andrew

It wouldn't make any sense for a tactical version or a 3-1/2 in. version. Mag capacity is no issue, it is just a plastic tube that can be quickly replaced with a longer plastic tube-- that's already covered.

Whatever your version of "tactical is," the M4 already has it covered as well. I wouldn't want a recoil-operated shotgun at all for HD and I don't know who would.

You do know that the M1/M2 are very popular in "tactical" configurations right? And that the Browning Auto-5 and it's clones were extremely popular for both police and criminals in it's day? Please explain why nobody would want one of these extremely reliable platforms for home defense?

In one of the articles, they mention that magazine extensions are coming. The market for magazine extensions for non tactical guns is pretty small. You have to restrict the magazine capacity below the standard for most hunting after all. If magazine extensions are coming, I'll bet we will see some sort of tactical version as well.

Thanks, Andrew, Randy, and Tempest. The Mossberg 500 passed the U.S. Army's Mil-Spec 3443E torture test of 3000 rounds of full power 12 gauge buckshot. The Benelli M4 (M1014 JSCS) was extensively tested for three years before it was adopted by the Marine Corps. I think that the twelve Vinci's that fired 87950 shells (albeit dove loads) without cleaning in eight days suggest that the Vinci is as reliable for combat as any shotgun has been thus far.

However, offensive use of shotguns in American combat missions seems to be mostly limited to door breaching. I've read that most Marines never even see the Benelli M4. Also, the fully automatic AA-12 fires 20 shells in four seconds and can fire 10000 rounds of fullpower 12 gauge buckshot without maintenance or cleaning, yet it seems to get little more than yawns for attention. The Marine Corps has not developed more than twenty prototype AA-12's since the great Tennessean Jerry Babar perfected them in 2002. Because our military is not really interested in combat shotguns anyway, except for breaching doors, I see a tactical Benelli Vinci as a great although expensive LE or HD shotgun.

Just as a sidenote because far, far fewer people care, the Mossberg 9200 and the Benelli Vinci are the two foremost candidates that could be made into PGO autoloading shotguns, because almost all others have the recoil spring in the buttstock. So the obvious advantage is that the Benelli Vinci is an autoloader that can use a telescoping buttstock, and would be a simpler and less expensive combat shotgun than the Benelli M4. Also, if combat shotguns are relegated to mostly breaching, they don't need the extra weight of night vision scopes, lasers, and flashlights which adversely affects the cycling of Inertia-Driven guns.

Yes, I've think I've heard of the A-5.

Both the Vinci and the A-5 require to push against something to function, neither can quickly cycle past a dead round. A pump is a far superior HD choice than either due to both of these reasons.

And they do push against something- your shoulder. Sure, you might not be able to run one from the hip like in the movies (although Bonnie and Clyde did with their cut down M11's). However, personally, I'd keep the stock to my shoulder so that I can use the sights. As for cycling past dead rounds, if you get good ammo and take care of it, the chances of that happening are pretty low. Modern semi autos are plenty reliable for home defense, and depending upon the person running the pump, could be more reliable than a pump action.

The inertial action was flunked by the US Military for reliability problems. It has little chance making it as a combat shotgun.

For "HD," is also holds little appeal. No one is going to like the price of a shorter barrel that is requisite, anything that adds weight may affect function, and it is not a good choice compared to many, many other options including the M37 Ithaca that won't bounce hulls of the wall. A lot of things work better if you think you need to keep the "bad guys" out of the kitchen, not the least of which would be a Ruger LCR or a Glock-- All of the above are far faster to deploy, easier handling in close quarters, and more reliable.

So when did the military consider the inertial action and turn it down? Also, if the M1/M2 has such a little chance of making it as a combat shotgun, why is it so popular as a swat shotgun?


you can safely add all the accessories that you need for HD on most inertia guns just fine. If you load it up with a ton of tactical crap, then you might have a problem, but a light shouldn't cause any problems, and you can probably even get away with a side saddle. Also, the popularity of M2 tactical guns as well as copies such as the stoeger M2000 in tactical trim shows that many people are willing to pay the price for a shorter barreled inertia operation shotgun.

In a self defense shooting, the last thing I am worried about is bouncing shells off the wall. Truthfully, I'll bet you will have a hard time finding someone else that would make a HD weapon selection based off of that criteria.



I really hope you are kidding. Any shotgun, be it a pump or a semi auto is going to be far more effective than a handgun. The only advantage of a handgun is it's size, either for concealment and ease of carry, or as compact backup for a larger weapon. Furthermore, your choice of pistols is interesting. A Ruger LCP is one of the least effective pistols in existence. The point of the LCP is to trade effectiveness for size. In short, it's better than no gun at all, if that's all you can carry, or as backup to a larger pistol. Also, if you are saying that a pump is somehow faster to deploy or easier handling, that doesn't even make sense.

You hardly need to mash the quote button four times to quote a brief post directly above your latest. I answered your questions-- and said nothing about a Ruger LCP at all, I cited the Ruger LCR.

I use quotes quite frequently when I want to respond to several points in the same post. It helps to keep everything straight.
I guess I misread the Ruger model that you mentioned. My statements about pistols still stand.
So when did the military test and reject the Benelli inertia action?

Have you considered the Benelli M3 pump/semi auto? You can run it in auto loading mode all the time if you wish, but the important part is that you can buy it with a folding stock:

it's about a 1/2 pound to a pound heavier than an M2.

ARDEC, in 1998-1999, in awarding solicitation #DAAE30-98-R-0401 to the Benelli M4 Super 90, using the "ARGO" system.

The military tested and approved a different gun, without testing the M1/M2. The outcome of that test proved that the M4 will pass the military requirements. It has absolutely nothing to do with the M1/M2 and the inertia system. Using your logic, any time you buy something, every other comparable product must be junk, because you didn't buy it instead.

In fact, according to pretty much every review I have read from people that have shot both the M4 and the M2 have said that the M2 is better.

Of course they tested the M1. It was Benelli themselves that recognized that the Montefeltro designed inertia (recoil) operating system of its then current Super-90 series was prone to short stroking when the added weight of a nightvision scope or other heavy accessory was clamped on. That's why the ARGO was introduced in the first place.

Military testing noted the Benelli 'click' and unreliability with certain overhead shots as well to point where it is considered common knowledge, cited many, many times including on this site redundantly. It also has nothing to do with the Vinci's success as a field gun, or its use for specialty applications that other shotguns are far better suited for.

Benelli won with the M1014-- so they knew what they were doing.

Randy and Tempest, I learned the most interesting answers today, 16 Nov 2009, to several questions that I asked three BenelliUSA customer service representatives. Specifically because of its unique In-Line Inertia-Driven action, the Benelli Vinci needs no break-in period whatsover! All other new Benelli autoloaders with the earlier Inertia-Driven actions should shoot plenty of heavy loads before shooting light loads, to make cycling problems with light loads unlikely. But not the Vinci! It was designed to cycle the lightest loads straight out of the box. Dove loads, reduced recoil buckshot, full power buckshot, it does not matter. A NIB Vinci will shoot any 2.75" or 3" shell. I was surprised by this answer, so I began to ask about the twelve Vinci's that shot 87950 dove loads in Argentina this year. All twelve were deliberately NIB Vinci's and that was a huge part of the reliability test. Benelli did not try to avoid possible breakdowns at that first unveiling of the Vinci to those very respected gunwriters by using long tested and trusted Vinci's. No, those were twelve NIB Vinci's.

I was also able to clarify that there were zero mechanical malfunctions with those twelve Vinci's. Most of the 87950 shells were made in the U.S.A. and taken down to Argentina, but some of the ammunition was locally produced in Argentina. While these shells that were made in Argentina were almost all good, one gunwriter noted that there were a few "duds." Benelli clarified for me that although very few shells failed to fire, all of them were the locally produced shells. All shells that were made in the U.S.A. fired, indicating that there is better quality control during production here. But the twelve NIB Vinci's themselves performed flawlessly, with the absolute minimum lubrication and zero cleaning in dusty and windy conditions for three to eight days. And that is precisely what Benelli set out to demonstrate.

Hindsight is 20/20. Benelli would absolutely have only used 100% "made in the U.S.A." ammunition in Argentina if they could unveil the Vinci again. If they had, there simply would not have been so much as one word to report about malfunctions. The In-Line Inertia-Driven Vinci is reliable straight out of the box as long as reliable ammunition is used.

Most of us are careful to load high quality 00 buckshot and slugs for HD ammo, and if a tactical Benelli Vinci is produced later, it will be reliable for HD or LE as long as high quality, reliable ammo is loaded. For a long time the Benelli M3 pump/semiauto shotgun has been able to pump shoot special police loads such as tear gas that might not cycle properly when it is in semiauto mode. Other autoloaders may not have this nice option, but at least if they do misfire, one can just work the bolt handle and eject the bad round. Yet the possibility of having to clear a jam when under attack has convinced many people to shun an autoloader for HD in favor of a pump shotgun. I suspect that a NIB tactical Benelli Vinci with reliable ammo would be just as reliable for HD as any pump shotgun.

The last Benelli representative that I spoke with agreed that a modular tactical stock that just twists on by hand without tools, like the current Vinci field stock does, would be nice. We also agreed that a tactical Vinci would be just as reliable for HD as a Benelli M4 which has the gas piston assisted ARGO system, and we also agreed that a tactical Vinci would be less expensive and less complicated than the Benelli M4.

Could it be that the Vicnchi rates so high in the gun magazines because Benelli bought a full page ad?

No. They wrote the articles for people who can spell Vinci.

Me. Thats who.

Its easier for me to short stroke a pump gun than it is for me to make a M1/2 to jam. Even with my Benelli loaded down with 11 rounds...

I think a Vinci with a 21 or 24 inch barrel would be cool.