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 Post subject: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:39 pm 
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I bought a High Standard Model 10B at the gun store recently. It's getting a once over (for safety) from a local gunsmith, and when I get it back, I'm looking to customize it a bit.

Right now, it's in fair condition, but it's in need of either a new front post, or a red dot sight, I think I'll go with red dot. It's also in need of a +2 magazine extender, and I'm sure a few other things... but I'm not sure what until I get a bit more into it (the rotating shoulder stock seem neat, but I'd like a way to make it so it can only rotate maybe 45 degrees, so I could reload it on the shoulder, but it wouldn't spin all willy nilly).

I post this here to see if anyone has any experience with the 10B. I know some people have, from this thread, which is actually what brought me to the forums, but I'm looking for as broad a range of advice, and maybe to pick brains, of as many people as will let me.

Reading Fallschirmjägers post was informative, but if he doesn't mind, or anyone else with experience, I'd like to pick your brains a bit more.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:39 pm
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Location: North of Atlanta
I'll answer anything I can.

I can only think of two ways to do the original stock, one is leaving it to freewheel, and the other way is to permanently pin it in position with a set screw (the option I went with). The way the buttstock is built there's no way, really, to let it do a 45-degree spin.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:48 am 
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Fallschirmjäger wrote:
I'll answer anything I can.

I can only think of two ways to do the original stock, one is leaving it to freewheel, and the other way is to permanently pin it in position with a set screw (the option I went with). The way the buttstock is built there's no way, really, to let it do a 45-degree spin.
What sight did you end up going with? The EOTech was on it, but you mentioned removing the front post entirely -- since my front post is missing, I thought about just replacing it with an EOTech or Red dot and leaving it at that.

You also said something about mating two 10B magazine tubes, how'd you go about that, and where'd you get the other 10B magazine tube from (I assume you mated one to the one that's already in the gun?).


Thanks for your time.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:23 am 
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Welcome to the Basement, Hermes. You can read the following, but Numrich's does not have a magazine tube to sell you. Maybe you can send your High Standard 10B to MAX100 if he can custom make a one-piece tube for you. If not, post again and I will help you to contact another company that frequently re-creates old gun parts.

4thPointofContact wrote:
The story behind the extended magazine tube:
I knew that the original tubes had been manufactured by Choate so I gave them a call and asked if they still had any in stock. After they all stopped laughing, someone was found that had worked on the original project and said they didn't have any in stock but gave a few pointers on how to do a conversion.

First of all, you need to find another magazine tube, Numrich aka E-Gunparts still has a few in stock last time I looked. Find one and have it welded to your original so that it is 18.5" - 19" long. Longer is better, you can fit another round in with the last 0.5". (It will extend a bit past the muzzle but I haven't seen any effects from blast on it.)

Second. You need to either cut the interior of the stock magazine cap (which holds the upper and lower together) so that it will slide down your new longer tube and hold the two halves together like it's supposed to.
Alternatively, you can have a new cap constructed, it has very simple angles; the only important one being the 45-degree interior angle to hold the receiver together. *Egunparts was out of new ones last time I checked.

Third. You need to find a way to press the newly constructed magazine cap against the receiver halves. On my magazine tube there is a +/- .10" thick or 1/16" thick band which my gunsmith made and placed at the right spot to provide pressure once the tube was screwed in.
Alternatively, you can weld/solder/magic the above newly constructed magazine cap to the tube at the proper location (previously determined and measured by you). Now it will be a permanent part of the tube, never to be lost and ready to do it's holdie-thingie job at any time.

I recommend using the stock, aluminum screw-plug from the M10 on the new magazine tube. All you need to do is blacken it and it's ready to go. Do not let your gunsmith manufacture a tube without 2 holes placed at the end like the original has, those two holes are Very Handy to place a cleaning rod through and use for removing the tube.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:56 am 
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wfb18 wrote:
Welcome to the Basement, Hermes. You can read the following, but Numrich's does not have a magazine tube to sell you. Maybe you can send your High Standard 10B to MAX100 if he can custom make a one-piece tube for you. If not, post again and I will help you to contact another company that frequently re-creates old gun parts.
It's not unfeasible that I could send the gun off to get something made, but I am squeamish about sending a gun off to anyone, even with an established reputation, and an FFL. I'd much rather have the part made, and sent to me, if that's possible.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 274
Location: North of Atlanta
Having the part made and sent to you is entirely feasible. It's the way I had my magazine tube done from a gunsmith in Florida.
The reason I had my tube constructed from two High Standard tubes was simply that I was not 100% sure that the diameter, threading (and lack of band on the tube) of any other manufacturer was the same as HS's.

If you were to measure the exact length of the tube between the receiver and where the tube exited the 10B's shell (or better yet, scribe a line at that point on your existing tube) then a gunsmith could permanently affix the magazine cap at the needed point on the new tube. The measurement is fairly critical since the magazine cap is what compresses the two halves of the plastic shell together (I'd probably want a 1/16th (back off the magazine tube by a half-turn) of an inch to make sure the magazine cap was firmly pressing against the shell halves.)

The point? The 10B's magazine tube has a band around it to press the magazine cap against the two halves of the shell, any new tube must do the same; pressing the magazine cap to the shell.


RED DOT
The choice is up to you but I've made a few observations.

The thickness for a M1913 rail is ..................................3/8" (.3750 nominal, .361875 minimum).
The center of the peep in a detachable M4 BUIS is .......1 7/16" (.4375)
The center of the eyepiece in a mounted Eotech is .....1 1/2" (.5000)
The center of the notch in the 10B rear sight is ..........1 7/16" (that doesn't mean you can use a MBUIS w/M1913 rail, don't forget the M1913 rail adds 3/8 in height, but it does seem to mean that I could increase the height of the front sight by 3/8" and shoot to point of aim again, hmmmmmm...)
(That's ALL Measured by eyeball and a measuring tape, it could be innacurate so take it as a ballpark figure)

What's it all mean? If you can find a sight with the pupil at 1.5 above the mounting surface then you should be good-to-go but 1/16 or 1/8 difference is not a problem at all.

Numrich magazine tube $15.40
Sold out magazine cap $16.05, so you'll be better off having one constructed.

The fact that your 10B doesn't have a front sight is probably a point in your favor. A properly extended magazine tube 18.5 inches long will protrude in front of the muzzle by a bit. You can easily have a standoff device / muzzle brake /thread protector threaded for the same threads as you already have.
Tromix and SGM tactical manufacture 12 gauge brakes, I'd think one of them could custom thread one for you.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Hermes, I'm sorry that I wrote that Numrich's does not have a magazine tube to sell you. I used their search feature, but I was so tired that I did not notice that there were 11 more pages of results for High Standard 10B. It looks that you will have that extension finished pretty quickly. Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:08 pm
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I just tried checking out at numrich, but their ordering system seems to be down at the moment. I'll try that again later. If I do end up getting this part, I still need to make a female-female connector piece, right (I assume, equal threading on both ends, and an end cap -- or can I use the end cap I'm pulling off of the gun now?).

So far, it seems like the extension is going to be... relatively... easy, it's the rest of it I'm worried about. I'm honestly not much for modifying my guns most of the time... but I just couldn't resist with this one.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:03 am 
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The last time I ordered from Numrich I had problems with their online ordering system as well. I called in my order and they extended the "web order only" shipping discount to me anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:36 am 
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It ended up placing the order despite the error message.

Luckily I didn't try to place the order two or three times.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:08 pm
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I've spoken to a few local gunsmiths, and a few not so local gunsmiths, and no one I know of can do this:

Quote:
First of all, you need to find another magazine tube, Numrich aka E-Gunparts still has a few in stock last time I looked. Find one and have it welded to your original so that it is 18.5" - 19" long. Longer is better, you can fit another round in with the last 0.5". (It will extend a bit past the muzzle but I haven't seen any effects from blast on it.)

Second. You need to either cut the interior of the stock magazine cap (which holds the upper and lower together) so that it will slide down your new longer tube and hold the two halves together like it's supposed to.
Alternatively, you can have a new cap constructed, it has very simple angles; the only important one being the 45-degree interior angle to hold the receiver together. *Egunparts was out of new ones last time I checked.

Third. You need to find a way to press the newly constructed magazine cap against the receiver halves. On my magazine tube there is a +/- .10" thick or 1/16" thick band which my gunsmith made and placed at the right spot to provide pressure once the tube was screwed in.
Alternatively, you can weld/solder/magic the above newly constructed magazine cap to the tube at the proper location (previously determined and measured by you). Now it will be a permanent part of the tube, never to be lost and ready to do it's holdie-thingie job at any time.

I recommend using the stock, aluminum screw-plug from the M10 on the new magazine tube. All you need to do is blacken it and it's ready to go. Do not let your gunsmith manufacture a tube without 2 holes placed at the end like the original has, those two holes are Very Handy to place a cleaning rod through and use for removing the tube.

How would I go about finding someone who can?

Edit: I already have the magazine tube.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:57 pm 
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You could try:
Neal Johnson's Gunsmithing, Inc., service/parts for High Standard
Armatt G. S., Inc., 335 Gay Road, Zebulon NC 27597, armatt@aol.com, parts for High Standard revolvers and bolt for Flite King 12 gauge
Bob Shea, 381 Quinnipiac Avenue, North Haven, CT 06473. 1-203-239-1012 (perhaps just the revolvers?)

Or you could e-mail High Standard Mfg., info@highstandard.com, which is a Houston morph of the old Connecticut company. Call 1-800-272-7816 or 1-713-462-4200 and they might direct you to a H.S. Yoda. http://www.highstandard.com/history.html

Good luck, Hermes.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:39 pm
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Location: North of Atlanta
Just found in the back of my closet - -
1 ea. High Standard extended magazine tube. It's 18 inches not 18.5 (which may only affect certain 'slightly longer rounds' such as Federal LE132-00 and similar. It will also need refinishing as the mated together area is bare steel.

If you cannot find anyone who can mate together two mild steel cylinders (which I think should be rather simple to do), then let me know and I'll sell it to you at the same cost EGunparts would sell you a standard tube at.

You will still have to come up with a way to affix the collar that holds the two halves of the shell together though, but again, that should be relatively to have fabricated.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:51 am 
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{hs# hi... I have one of the HS B10 shotgun.... the good part is that have an extra collar machined to fit/press on the original magazine tube and it has a cut to hold the 2 plastic halves. My extension was made from another HS shotgun tube and was secured with liquid steel and allen set screws. The front sight can be retained. There is some work that needs to be done is you want to get one of my unfinished bushings... or sell the complete magazine unit.... this add 2 extra rounds... 3 is possible but it will extend about 3/4" from the barrel end....anyway.... send me a line and we can talk.... I am in the north Texas area.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:16 am 
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Welcome to the Basement, expomich.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:53 am 
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IMO the 10B is one of the most interesting SG's ever made. So much so that I welcome the necropost.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:11 pm 
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I agree it is a firearm that has history and some problems... :oops: trigger, limited shell capacity, lubricated by its own gas, hd ammunition, etc. nevertheless it was used by many police departments including the FBI and officers from other countries. No indication of numbers produced since the SN are based on the 66 and c1200 shotguns.... I am familiar with this unit and it is somewhat complicated the maintenance and that frustrated many owners and some gun shops.
8) I was successful in making my own extension, the main components are the original magazine and added tube....the coupling was machined by a local CNC machine shop. I had side by side my Remington express and I would prefer the B10… maybe is nostalgia of the old days… :wink:

There are some other bullpups in the market that are the grandchildren of the 10B. Drop me a PM to my email and I will share some photos of the parts used for the extension ... I have some extras.expomich at yahoo dot com dot mx.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:30 am 
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Fallschirmjäger:

Do you have the extra extended barrel still available to sell that's already extended? I'd be interesting in buying it.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:29 pm 
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I have my e mail posted in prior posting... send me a PM and I will share some photos of the extension setup. {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Model 10B
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Hi...

For the B10 mag extension, I do have some options:

This is a do it yourself if you have mid and up mechanical skill level….drill press, taps drill bits, center punch, etc… the plan:

1-Provide your 2 mag tubes for a +2 or 3 capacity length...for Remington cap or HS plug ends

2-I do have the steel adaptor cut to fit between the 2 mags but not drilled or tapped for installation... you can use as welded, epoxy or set screw setup... cut the extension as you need...it is your call.

3- I have available a Semi-ready, Steel or aluminum adaptor and aluminum extension attached to adaptor- set screws taped and set to keep front site during install… will fit on your existing mag tube.

4-I do have mine (steel coupling) installed ... my extension can be unscrewed/removed as a complete unit without removing the front sight ...it is holding together the two mag tubes by 8 set screws...you can get mine but I need a tube mag replacement.

Pay close attention when removing the tube magazine... the plastic halves … the tube mag could be stubborn to remove…the threads need to be lubricated with penetrating oil prior unscrewing the tube.

The steel adaptor is a machine shop made computer lathe...

All options require a sling clamp to add positive security between the barrel and mag...

NOW, the classic disclaimer :oops: ...modify at your risk... there are some variables that if in doubt you need to consult with a competent gunsmith. My installed extension works and functions with positive feed of all 6 shells said that no warranty is implied. :shock:

For photos/additional info, :) e mail me at

expomich@yahoo.com.mx

I am in the North Texas area.

Thanks


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