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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm 
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Location: Iowa, in a cornfield bedecked with skulls
If it's the police chief I have to go to, no problem. If it's the sherrif, then there is a problem.

Thanks a bunch banshee! I have been roughly aware of the process for some time now but it has never been delineated so clearly before. Thanks!



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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:54 pm 
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So would a 12" barrel pump shotgun with a pistol grip (under 26" total) be AOW or SBS?

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:32 pm 
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Racked 870 wrote:
So would a 12" barrel pump shotgun with a pistol grip (under 26" total) be AOW or SBS?
It depends.

If the firearm started life (left the factory) as a shotgun with a shoulder stock and you modified it by removing the shoulder stock, adding the pistol grip and shortening the barrel, it is a weapon made from a shotgun. (you can call it a SBS for for simplicity's sake).

If your firearm begins life as a virgin receiver (never had a shoulder stock mounted on it) and you add your described parts to it, you have manufactured an AOW.

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:03 pm 
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What if it came from the factory with a pistol grip and I shortened the barrel?

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:10 pm 
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Racked 870 wrote:
What if it came from the factory with a pistol grip and I shortened the barrel?


AOW, still cost you $200 to make it. Then if you ever sold it the transfer fee would be $5.00

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:13 pm 
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Racked 870 wrote:
So would a 12" barrel pump shotgun with a pistol grip (under 26" total) be AOW or SBS?


the top and bottom guns are SBS the Ithaca in the middle is an AOW
Image

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:14 am 
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Banshee,

I am having a hard time determining who I could get to sign my forms. My fiance' is in Law Enforcement, and has a few connections, but I don't know if any of her's will do. Is there some info on this somewhere?

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:49 am 
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try here and see if it helps. go about 1/3 of the way down the page

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/us ... fa_faq.txt

look for "Obtaining the law enforcement certification"

Does your fiance' work in the same county or City that you live in? If so, I would start there. All they doing by signing is certifying that you don't have a criminal record, NOT giving permission. Fl. seems to be a NFA friendly state, They allow all types of NFA stuff
-machine gun
- sound suppressor (silencer)
- short barreled rifle
- short shotgun
- any other weapon
- large bore destructive device
- explosive, incendiary or poison gas destructive device

When I got my first Class three weapon back in the late 80s I went to the Sheriff's office to talk to the Sheriff. He said all he had to go on was my lack of a criminal record, and I could one of the biggest criminals in the state and just haven't been caught yet. I told him "yes sir. that is true, but the same could be said of you. You could be out looking up little girls skirts and just haven't been caught yet". He turn red and said "good point" and sighed my papers. A year later, he would not sign my papers on my suppressor, so I went to the District Attorney and he signed. The law was changed in TN a couple of years ago. They have to sign with in 15 days if you do not have a record.

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:09 am 
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Banshee wrote:
try here and see if it helps. go about 1/3 of the way down the page

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/us ... fa_faq.txt

look for "Obtaining the law enforcement certification"

Does your fiance' work in the same county or City that you live in? If so, I would start there. All they doing by signing is certifying that you don't have a criminal record, NOT giving permission. Fl. seems to be a NFA friendly state, They allow all types of NFA stuff
-machine gun
- sound suppressor (silencer)
- short barreled rifle
- short shotgun
- any other weapon
- large bore destructive device
- explosive, incendiary or poison gas destructive device

When I got my first Class three weapon back in the late 80s I went to the Sheriff's office to talk to the Sheriff. He said all he had to go on was my lack of a criminal record, and I could one of the biggest criminals in the state and just haven't been caught yet. I told him "yes sir. that is true, but the same could be said of you. You could be out looking up little girls skirts and just haven't been caught yet". He turn red and said "good point" and sighed my papers. A year later, he would not sign my papers on my suppressor, so I went to the District Attorney and he signed. The law was changed in TN a couple of years ago. They have to sign with in 15 days if you do not have a record.


Yes, that got me the information I needed, thank you. She does indeed work in the same city/county.

Great story about you and the sherriff. I wander why he didn't sign for the suppressor?????

BTW, what if I move to another county. I don't have to do this over again do I?

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:30 am 
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he was a prick, and got beat in the next election.

Once you get the approval it is for a life time. If you move with in the same state, you send the ATF a letter telling them that you have changed your address. Even if you move to another state, you only tell the ATF. You file a 5320 before you take it out of the state.You can do a 5320 by Fax or mail, no law enforcement signatures or taxes required for any moves.

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:48 am 
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Banshaee,
A couple of questions for you.
Where does the Chief law enforcement officer sign on the form 1?
What is an acceptable reason on form 1(i) "state why you intend to make firearm" for the ATF?

Also, on the 5330.20 form. #2: "name of person CERTIFYING to citizenship". Who is the person that completes this?

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:16 am 
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Whitecoyote wrote:
Banshaee,
A couple of questions for you.
Where does the Chief law enforcement officer sign on the form 1?
What is an acceptable reason on form 1(i) "state why you intend to make firearm" for the ATF?

Also, on the 5330.20 form. #2: "name of person CERTIFYING to citizenship". Who is the person that completes this?

Thanks.




CLEO signs section 13 on the back of the page. right under your photograph.

acceptable reason... I always put "collectors item"

#2: "name of person CERTIFYING to citizenship". that is you.
it is possible that on #1 could be the name of a Corporation, Partnership, Trust, ect.

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:49 pm 
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Do you have to pay that $200 tax every time you build or purchase a short-barreled rifle, shotgun, or class III machine gun?


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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:14 pm 
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Six Feet Under wrote:
Do you have to pay that $200 tax every time you build or purchase a short-barreled rifle, shotgun, or class III machine gun?


yes, $200 for every one. you pay a $5.00 tax when you buy an AOW

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:51 am 
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The shortest shotgun I ever owned was a single shot break down.It was abut 14 inches over all.And man it was a [email protected]#$h to hang on to.It was found in an old house , and somehow the barrel had rusted to the point of no return.But the rest of the gun was in great shape.We cut back as far as we needed to,in doing so took most of the forearm(all the way back to the screw)You could put a patern out about the size of a house.Now I,ve got older and I'd like to think wiser,I dont think I would ever do that again.There is such a thing as too short.The shorter you go the less control you have .


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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:30 pm 
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If you have a single barrel shotgun, you hook a tape measure over the chamber end, and measure forward?

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:39 pm 
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Damnit Banshee! Now I want a SBS Benelli!

I might just be the first kid in my class to get an NFA item.

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:15 pm 
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So, what's the easiest way to cut down the mag tube and rethread it?

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 Post subject: Re: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:06 pm 
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BlenderWizard wrote:
So, what's the easiest way to cut down the mag tube and rethread it?



I used a lathe and a 4 Jaw chuck to do mine.

the Magazine tube has a 1 inch 12 square thread.

and the fore-end has a 1.080 inch-32 thread

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:25 pm 
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How did you hold the magazine tube to thread it? I want to do mine one day but before I send off my paper work, I want to make sure I can do it myself. I've been racking my head over how to hold it in the lathe

Thanks
Brad




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