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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:11 pm 
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I have a stupid newbie question do I need one of these permits to take my 870 that has a 26" barrel and add a 18.5 inch barel for home protection? or is this permit just for huns shorter than that? thanks.




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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:24 pm 
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no, only if you want to go shorter than a 18.00 barrel, or under 26 inchs Over all length.

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:37 pm 
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in case anyone want to see what a form 1 looks like, here is one of my approved ones.

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Last edited by Banshee on Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:27 pm 
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Aww come on.. show us the other side so we can see that mug of yours, LOL :lol:

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:19 pm 
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Question:

If the receiver has never had a shoulder stock installed ie. a pistol grip only, then would the barrel shortening process then produce an A.O.W. class firearm? The $5.00 transfer and favorable transportation regulations would make this a desirable conversion. (Note: No shoulder stock installation is involved)


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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:49 pm 
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yes it would be an AOW, still cost $200 to build it if you are not a manufacturer. $5.00 to transfer it to someone, and no 5320 required to travel. The AOW class of firearms have a weird set of rules compared to the rest.

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:55 am 
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Would this count for a mossberg cruiser that come from the factory with onlu a pistol grip?


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 Post subject: Re: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:47 pm 
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DJTURNz wrote:
Would this count for a mossberg cruiser that come from the factory with onlu a pistol grip?


yes, if pistol grip only

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:54 pm 
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Banshee wrote:
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Being a Canadian, this is the first time that I've ever seen one of these; I find several of the questions in Section 7:

"...ARE YOU: b. A fugitive from justice? (YES/NO)..."

"...ARE YOU: e. An unlawful user of or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? (YES/NO)..."

...to be - how shall I put this - 'impractically dependent' on the honesty of the person completing the form.

The scary part is, I'll bet there have been applicants who not only answered 'YES' to either or both of those questions, but who then actually submitted the form...


:shock:

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:09 pm 
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you listed the barrel length at 13.5 and totoal length at 33"

If you decided to either put a longer (yet <18inch) barrel on it, I guess you would need another stamp? Do you serialize the barrel or receiver?

What if you changed the stock and the overall length changed, then what, the numbers on the application changed, is that ok?


Last edited by DJTURNz on Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:54 pm 
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For a temporary mod you need to do nothing. If I wanted to remove the stock and put a pistol grip on or change the barrel to 14 or even 18 inch, It would be no problem for temporary use. If you want to make a permanent change, such as barrel length or stock length just send the ATF a letter telling what you did and they will update the files tax free.The ATF doesn't get to excited if the barrel length or OAL is off a little bit. I have a 13 inch barrel and a 14 inch barrel with rifle sights that a swap around on mine all the time.
The Receiver must be serial numbered. I put my name and city and state on the barrel.

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:32 pm 
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I'm interested in one of these, myself. I'm doing research to find out about a shotgun with a 14" barrel, and one of those pistol grips that look like an abbreviated monte carlo stock, which I find to be much more comfortable than the standard pistol grips.

After reading Banshee's wonderfully insightful posts, I'm intrigued by what I've learned. I would like to clarify something, though, for my own understanding. If I purchased a reciever fitted with a barrel, hypothetically a Remington 870 with a 14" barrel, and put my own pistol grip on it, this would still be considered an AOW, so long as it was sold as an AOW, to begin with, correct? And from that point, should I decide to put a full rifle stock on it temporarily, it would still be considered an AOW? I want the weapon for recreation, but the more options I have with it, the better I like it, so any info on this example would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:56 pm 
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if you started with a Receiver or barreled receiver or even a pistol griped gun, you can build an AOW, but being an AOW you NEVER, EVER LEGALY put a full stock on it. It is just one of those quirks of the NFA.

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:57 am 
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Start to finish, pistol grip. Got it.


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 Post subject: Re: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:17 pm 
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BradN wrote:


according to the chart Ks (kansas) says no to short shotguns. Could I register a pistol grip shotgun with a 12.5" barrel as an AOW, which according to the chart would be ok?

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 Post subject: Re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:05 am 
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Banshee wrote:
Racked 870 wrote:
So would a 12" barrel pump shotgun with a pistol grip (under 26" total) be AOW or SBS?


the top and bottom guns are SBS the Ithaca in the middle is an AOW
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Thanks, you have been a really good sport about answering everyones questions. I have a few more.

First off, I would like more info on the top and bottom guns. ie; starting model, barrel length, OAL, magazine capacity assuming 2 3/4 shells, barrel and receiver length without stock (if that's not too much trouble).

I think I want an SBS as apposed to an AOW. Mostly because I will probably put a youth model stock on it most of the time. I will probably get a pistol grip for it (duck head style?), but I assume I won't like it like that, so I want the option of a full stock. I have also read that an SBS is legal to carry with my PA LTCF, but not an AOW. I have no desire to conceal an SBS, but I would then be able to carry it loaded in my truck. I have to look further into it.

Right now, the gun I am picturing would go something like this:
12G (of course)
12" barrel (or minimum needed for desired capacity)
smooth bore
Rifle sights
probably a somewhat tight choke (no problem not being able to shoot slugs.)
3 shot magazine capacity, so 3+1 capacity
Possibly ported

How difficult do you think it would be to accomplish this?

I am not sure of the donor gun yet, I assume that one particular model would be easier to work with over another to accomplish this.


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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:05 pm 
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the top one a 870P. It has a 13.00 barrel, and will hold four rds in the tube and one in the barrel.The OAL is 35 inches. I will have to measure it without the stock, I'll get that in a day or so. I also have a 14.00 rifle sight barrel for it.

the bottom one is a 870 Wingmaster. It has a 7.00 inch barrel and will hold 2 in the tube and one in the barrel. The OAL is 17.00 inches. same on the OAL without the grip, I'll have to measure it.

A 12.00 inch barrel with rifle sights would have to be custom made. Remington does makes one that is 14.00 inches. You can shorten the barrel on a 870 to 12.00 inchs without cutting the mag tube.

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:21 am 
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Does an 870 usually only hold 4 rounds? You say that an 870 can be cut to 12inch without cutting the tube. Your 870P is 13 and it looks like it's flush.
Thanks, this info helps a lot.

I was looking at my mossberg and I didn't measure it but it looks like if I cut my 18.5 off flush with the 5 shot magazine I would be removing about 4 inches. That little bit doesn't seem to be worth $200. Although for some reason 6" off suddenly rationalizes the $200 in my mind.

I guess I'll have to start looking for a used 870 to cut on.

The OAL really helps though, I'll have to measure my 500 to put it in perspective.

Do any of those 3 have chokes? I think I would want to have mine choked and just forgo slugs. What is the tightest choke that can be safely used for 00buck? Also, is there a way to choke AND still port the barrel? I assume that porting would help with the extra kick from the shortened barrel and reduced weight.

Again Banshee, thanks


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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:50 pm 
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a 870 holds the total of 5, four in the tube and one in the barrel.
The barrel on the 870P is not flush with the mag cap at 13.00 inches. If you look at the picture you can see the barrel is resting on the wooden peg

The length of my 870P without a stock is 20.250 inches and the shorty is 14.250

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 Post subject: re: How to legally build a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:28 am 
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I have a few more questions that I have thought os as I have been reading around about manufacturing an NFA Shotgun.

1. I was planning to start an LLC anyway at some point for a different business. Other than a stuborn Sherrif, are there any advantages or drawbacks to using an LLC instead of myself and getting the signature.

2. Serial number. If I use an existing gun and just cut the barrel, what if there is a malfunction and the receiver is damaged? Would I have to apply all over and pay $200 again if I got another receiver? Or can I file a form to change the serial?

3. How conspicuous would I look at 6'3" 350# carrying a violin case everywhere to conceal my shotgun? lol




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