ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:03 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:50 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 13114
I have become very serious about my 1911 and AR 15 practice. I am shooting several hundred rounds nearly every evening after work, and I am shooting in my own back yard.

Did I win the lottery or something?

No, I am using modern CO2 powered BB guns that very accurately represent real firearms in size, weight and function. One is a Crosman DPMS SBR that has semi and full auto capability. It has an 11 inch barrel, full length rail and takes real AR accessories. This thing is amazingly realistic. I have it set up exactly like my CMMG "pistol" with the same Holosun red dot and Magpull furniture. Not counting accessories, I have less that $200 in it.

The 1911 is a Colt Defender made by Umarex. It is geometrically correct and properly weighted with good sights and an accessory rail. I added a compact Streamlight TLR4 light/laser combo so that I can practice after dark.

For targets I simply ran a string from tree to tree and using wooden clothes pins to hang empty drink cans by the pull tab. These are reactive targets as they make a loud "ding" and move when hit. If you can hit a standard beer can at five to seven yards, you can reliably hit a similar shaped rectangle, a standard action pistol target out to
25 yards or so with a real firearm. The basic fundamentals of marksmanship are the same.
The only real difference is noise and recoil and with a compensated AR-15 the recoil is negligible. A few thousand rounds of BB's with the occasional trip to the range where I fire 50 rounds or so to stay acclimated to noise and recoil is doing wonders for my shooting ability.



_________________
It is better to be seen than viewed.


Last edited by Ezra Smack on Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500 rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:45 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:28 pm
Posts: 315
I do the same with my home made rubber band carbine and pistol. They are fly killing machines. You can find me hanging out at the juiciest garbage cans. I shoot by instinct having no sights. No insects have covid.


wear a mask.

FD6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500 rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:13 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 13114
I am to the point now that I can hip shoot reliably within seven yards. I use a 7 X 14" piece of roof flashing which makes a loud "ding" and a very obvious dent when hit. If I can do this with a BB pistol I am convinced that I can draw a real 1911 "cowboy style" and hit a man across a typical room solidly in the torso just as fast. All it takes is lots and lots of practice.

BTW: Since making the original post about an hour ago I got inspired and stepped out back and shot about 300 BB's at random can targets. It cost me just a few dollars.

_________________
It is better to be seen than viewed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:52 am
Posts: 5726
About 35 years ago after I learned of the Army's Vietnam era "Quick Kill" program, I knocked the sights off a BB gun and shot various objects instinctively. My shotgun shooting improved tremendously and I became the scourge of hornets, wasps, Eurasion lady beetles, box elder bugs, dandelions, milkweed pods, and all manner of targets.

I continued it with various CO2 handgun copies though I have issues with the rings freezing and cracking. I probably should take more time be tee shots but it is hard when one gets on a roll. The good part of BB guns is one can shoot them indoors using a canvas tarp as a backstop. Fold the bottom of the tarp up and it makes a good BB catcher. Then you can reuse the BBs.

I don't practice with the AR as much as I should even though I have a 22LR conversion for it and I can shoot out in the back yard. A couple hundred rounds a week is my norm which seems to be enough to keep muscle memory in tune. I shoot a lot more 22 LR from revolvers and a bolt gun which allows me to collect the brass easier. A shoebox full of brass easily gets me a couple bricks. I can't see tossing money away when there are options.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:01 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 13114
These modern CO2 BB guns do essentially the same concept as training with a .22 conversion only without the noise, safety and the legal concerns of shooting in town. It also do it cheaper. I am not sure about the size ratio but if you can reliably hit a soda can at ten yards with one of these, you should be able to hit a man sized torso at any practical self defense distance with a real AR.

_________________
It is better to be seen than viewed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:16 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 13114
Update: Just out of curiosity I put a standard size beer can on top of a 3' step ladder and stood 10 yards away. I then had my average size wife stand directly behind the can and walk slowly backwards. With one eye closed her torso and the can became roughly the same size at around 35 yards.

Therefore, hitting a drink can at 10 yards is roughly as difficult as hitting a small man in the torso at 35 yards as both targets appear to be about the same size. Of course there are other mitigating circumstances but again, this is a rough equivalent.

_________________
It is better to be seen than viewed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:27 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:39 pm
Posts: 5134
OK....how about moving targets? That is probably the best skill to have.

_________________
The root(s) of all evil:
-Political Correctness
-Insurance
-Securitization
Take your pick.

Always make an even number of mistakes. One may cancel out another.

"People who enjoy meetings should not be in charge of anything." --Thomas Sowell


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:33 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:28 pm
Posts: 315
But you do not want non-lethal hits at 35 yards on any sized man. If I was you I would not rest until I could be facing away from a beer can facing me end on, whirl while drawing my carry and hit that beer can end on ten times out of ten in any light at ten yards with at least one slug from a quick double tap.

Without those kind of skills you are just a sitting duck for some malignant antifa type in a black hoodie and a bad attitude. Headshots bro. Argument/Confrontation stopper like right now, bro. Never get close to a bad guy with a gun or covid. Take'em at a distance.

Keep the faith, wear your mask, clean you weapon,

FD6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:52 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:52 am
Posts: 5726
I would check on the legalities of shooting a BB gun in town, many states define firearms or dangerous weapons in such a way that includes in the definition those that use air, gas, springs, or other means of propulsion other than various forms of powder. Even if the state is silent on the matter, it is likely there is a local ordinance on the matter. If in one of those relatively rare places that do not have such ordinances, consider yourself lucky.

Air guns open up avenues of use that are unavailable with conventional firearms but there are sometimes potential issues to consider before using such tools openly. I know more than one person who got an unexpected visit from law enforcement over such actions. A little embarrassment was the result for the majority but a few pushed the matter into citations and even court.

As for hitting reduced sized targets at close range with simulated arms directly translating to hitting larger targets at greater distance with conventional firearms, I haven't seen it. Shooting the reduced size targets can help make the transition quicker if one practices proper technique but one still needs to actually shoot at the given range with the actual firearm. Even with the smaller target, errors in technique are magnified as ranges increase. I wish there was a substitute for actually shooting at a given range but I haven't found it yet. The person who can develop such a system will make a bundle off those looking to gain skill the easy way.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:03 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:52 am
Posts: 5726
Zbigniew wrote:
OK....how about moving targets? That is probably the best skill to have.


Better would be moving targets that are shooting back at you!:)

After shooting hundreds of thousands of shotgun rounds at moving targets, I got halfway decent at hitting rabbits and hares in front of dogs with rifles and pistols. My dad, uncles, and grandfathers were real good at shooting running rabbits, deer, and other game with rifles but they had a lot more opportunity for doing such as jackrabbits were a plague locally when they were growing up. Military experience fine tuned their skill.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:12 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 13114
falcondriver6 wrote:
Never get close to a bad guy with a gun or covid. Take'em at a distance.
FD6


The problem is that most real bad guys with guns usually do not display their gun at a distance. Contrary to popular belief, real gun fights do not happen at seven yards. They happen within seven yards up to including wrestling distance. Sure if someone breaks into your house you might have a chance to take cover and take an aimed shot at a comfortable distance. But what if some social justice mob swarms your car at a red light? Or you are busy looking at your phone and suddenly find yourself in a headlock? Real criminal attacks are close, quick and unexpected. You must train accordingly no matter how old, fat and diabetic you are. If you can pop a beer can at ten yards with a BB gun, you can probably take a head shot with a Glock at one yard. Speed wins gun fights. Thousands upon thousands of aimed shots at relatively close range builds quick reaction time. Most of us can't afford to do that with real ammo.

_________________
It is better to be seen than viewed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:25 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:39 pm
Posts: 5134
uglydog wrote:
Zbigniew wrote:
OK....how about moving targets? That is probably the best skill to have.


Better would be moving targets that are shooting back at you!:)

After shooting hundreds of thousands of shotgun rounds at moving targets, I got halfway decent at hitting rabbits and hares in front of dogs with rifles and pistols. My dad, uncles, and grandfathers were real good at shooting running rabbits, deer, and other game with rifles but they had a lot more opportunity for doing such as jackrabbits were a plague locally when they were growing up. Military experience fine tuned their skill.


Exactly the type of shooting that builds that skill.

_________________
The root(s) of all evil:
-Political Correctness
-Insurance
-Securitization
Take your pick.

Always make an even number of mistakes. One may cancel out another.

"People who enjoy meetings should not be in charge of anything." --Thomas Sowell


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:39 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2699
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
BB guns? You're going to shoot your eye out!

I've got a RWS 54 coming so I can practice what I do, off hand rifle matches, and while BBs are cheap, they aren't accurate enough for bullseye shooting at 25 yards. I thought long and hard about precharged pneumatic but I really didn't want to deal with scuba tanks or buying a special high pressure pump.

_________________
I finally figured out that lifting your head and not following through can ruin your score in a rifle match also.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:14 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:28 pm
Posts: 315
You can't practice enough! Shoot mo' BB's. Shoot, shoot!

I guess you guys know about - or maybe even collect like me - those practice weapons the old time paladins, shootists and guns for hire from the American Old West (circa. 1865-1885) used obsessively. They were spring powered dart guns - very rare today - They would draw and shoot them endlessly so that they were lightning fast, reliable and deadly. I have 4 such revolver-type pistols and five replacement springs. I do not shoot them.

Shoot straight! Wear your mask. Take no prisoners. Prisoners testify!

FD6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:34 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 13114
Just put a quick 300 rounds through the AR BB gun before supper. Except for the noise and a slight amount of recoil the experience was virtually the same as a trip to the range. I have noticed a marked improvement in my time between beer cans. What would 300 rounds of .223 cost provided I find them? I also saved half an our of driving to and from the range, having to clean my rifle and stress on my 57 year old back from picking up 300 spent cased.

_________________
It is better to be seen than viewed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:54 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:33 am
Posts: 364
Location: Virginia
Yes the BB gun helps, but you are doing yourself a disservice by not training the way you fight. One of the most important things a lot of people do not realize is how a different recoil impulse affects people when it counts. There’s a reason the top shooters train with what they shoot and not 22lr…just something to think about.

_________________
"My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you I just signed legislation which outlaws Russia forever. The bombing will begin in five minutes."
(Ronald Reagan 11 August 1984)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:48 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 13114
GE-Mini-gun wrote:
Yes the BB gun helps, but you are doing yourself a disservice by not training the way you fight. One of the most important things a lot of people do not realize is how a different recoil impulse affects people when it counts. There’s a reason the top shooters train with what they shoot and not 22lr…just something to think about.


And just how much recoil does a Bennie Cooley compensated AR 15 have? Very little.

The thing that makes people flinch with an AR is not the anticipation of recoil, it is the anticipation of NOISE. When I do train with my real AR for the 100 rounds or so that I can afford, I wear plugs and muffs. I am thinking about training with a set of muffs when I shoot my BB gun just to become more used to them.

The BB 1911 that I train with has no recoil whatsoever so before a real match I have been doing a psychological trick on myself. I put about 50 rounds of heavy cast bullet reloads through a .44 Magnum. After that the recoil of a .45 ACP seems very mild and I am not compelled to flinch.

BTW, I put another 300 BBs through my AR this evening. That is 300 times that I aligned the red dot and 300 times that I pulled the trigger and probably 285 times that I hit one of multiple targets in very fast secession like ding, ding, ding. Next time I shoot my real rifle I expect the same level of improvement that I achieved last time. No a BB gun, no matter how realistic is not a real rifle but it is much a closer training tool than a keyboard.

_________________
It is better to be seen than viewed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:27 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 13114
Update:

For BB pistol practice I have found the perfect target. Foil pie plates. I found them 3 for a buck at Dollar General so I bought a dozen. the bottom of these measures 8" which is exactly the diameter of the down zero circle on an IDPA target. There is no question when you hit one and the soft foil eliminates any chance of a direct bounce back. I attach them to the string with 2 clothes pins and got my usual 300 shots in before supper. I will probably stay with smaller drink cans for AR practice.

_________________
It is better to be seen than viewed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:04 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:04 pm
Posts: 2698
This would be the perfect Christmas gift for my grandson. Can you explain how it works on full auto as the literature says it has only a 25 round capacity magazine but can shoot 1400 rpm. How long will the co2 device last.?Are extra magazines available? Any real world info you can share would be appreciated.
Amazon has them listed at $170 which sounds like a fair price.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:31 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm
Posts: 13114
wrfish wrote:
This would be the perfect Christmas gift for my grandson. Can you explain how it works on full auto as the literature says it has only a 25 round capacity magazine but can shoot 1400 rpm. How long will the co2 device last.?Are extra magazines available? Any real world info you can share would be appreciated.
Amazon has them listed at $170 which sounds like a fair price.


The way it works on full auto is BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAP and you are out. That is why I never use full auto. Even controlled bursts of 3 or 4 shots empty the magazine in just a few trigger pulls. On semi you should be able to get about 150 shots per the 2 gas cartridges that the magazine holds. It is important to put them in in proper order though. Left one first. They are very reasonably priced, something like 25 for $15.

The magazines are available as an aftermarket item online or at Academy Sporting goods for about $49. That is reasonable as the magazine is really the gun as it holds the BB's and the gas. I have read that they now offer a 300 round magazine for only about $10 more but it still has a working capacity of 25 rounds. Evidently you have to take it out and do something to it every 25 shots. Still, that probably beats having to use the rather flimsy loading tool that comes with it. (my only major complaint) I have put something like 8,000 shots through mine and it still works like new.

The only real drawback, and this is serious, is that BB's bounce back. Even if you are shooting at a perfectly safe paper target it can hit a tree limb or something in the background and come straight back. I have been hit several times. Not really all that painful but if one went in my eye...

WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!

Other than that it should make a perfect Christmas gift for your grandson and for you as well.



_________________
It is better to be seen than viewed.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 47MolineRTU, bfre49849, Bing [Bot], Bladeswitcher, boray, Burnt Powder, challer, Chitownhoff, Chris Ferres, clayaddiction, crazyforbrownings, dallen749, DeGriz, Denver1911, df, dhb66, double20, dukman22, Eric87000, EricB, Eriehunter, fralic76, fullgallon, gaAPD, Gil Ash, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Husker90, jbmich, Jim Tyner, JoM, jusanothajoe, KRIEGHOFFK80, kyskeet, lt0026, Lumberjack98, md2020, mikeydio, nhithaca, Old No7, pintail_drake2004, popcorn09, reyper, Roger Gascoigne, Rooster booster, Scott in TX, shootandfish2, Specklebelly, sportclayslayer1, Steeler [Crawler], Tom Bryant, treeduck71, tsavery1, twin rivers, twix228, Virginian, vzarcaro, Wildwood, wjonessc


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice