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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:27 pm 
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Thanks for the info. My grandson is not a typical 15 year old. He is a very hardworking farm boy and already has a shotgun and rifle collection.He gets excellent leadership from his parents. The BB gun would be a fun novelty . Last year he had two deer tags, got them both at six am and was not late for school. I am always looking for something out of the ordinary for him at Christmas. Thanks for the info.




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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:53 pm 
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Again, BB's do not behave like lead bullets. When I first got a BB pistol at age 50 I went out on a real pistol range and shot a steel plate at 10 yards. I had probably shot that plate and many others a thousand times times with lead .45 reloads without issue. This time was different. The BB did not splatter at 90 degrees like lead does. It came straight back and popped me on the knuckle of my middle finger right under the trigger guard. Even though it did not break the skin it still hurt like damn it. Sure would not want that in my eye. This had nothing to do with maturity, responsibility, respect for elders or lack of upbringing. It just amounted to my ignorance of how BB's can bounce because I never had a BB gun when I was a kid. I always had pellet guns and they shoot soft lead just like a real pistol.

Be sure that your grandson understands this and always wears safety glasses and never shoots anything hard up close. As long as he does that he will be perfectly safe.

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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
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Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
Ezra Smack wrote:
Again, BB's do not behave like lead bullets. When I first got a BB pistol at age 50 I went out on a real pistol range and shot a steel plate at 10 yards. I had probably shot that plate and many others a thousand times times with lead .45 reloads without issue. This time was different. The BB did not splatter at 90 degrees like lead does. It came straight back and popped me on the knuckle of my middle finger right under the trigger guard. Even though it did not break the skin it still hurt like damn it. Sure would not want that in my eye. This had nothing to do with maturity, responsibility, respect for elders or lack of upbringing. It just amounted to my ignorance of how BB's can bounce because I never had a BB gun when I was a kid. I always had pellet guns and they shoot soft lead just like a real pistol.

Be sure that your grandson understands this and always wears safety glasses and never shoots anything hard up close. As long as he does that he will be perfectly safe.


Plated lead BB's are available, though they are a bit more expensive than steel BB's, but you won't have to worry about ricochets off of hard surfaces, ricochets that can come back to hit you or make a tempered glass car window crumble into tiny pieces.
Image

You may also notice that these BB's weigh 7.4 grains, as opposed to 5.2 grains for a steel BB. They will have a slightly lower velocity, but they won't slow down as much with distance, giving improved crosswind bucking properties.

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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:37 pm 
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Regular steel BB's are perfectly safe if proper precautions are observed. The problem is that most kids, let me revise that, most seasoned adult shooters, are not aware of the different physics between soft lead and hard steel.

The rules are really simple:

Always wear eye protection, don't shoot hard things up close and make sure no hard things are directly behind your target. Obey these 3 rules and BB's are perfectly safe.

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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:14 am 
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Here is a video of the Japanese Air Soft champion who has never even been allowed to touch a real gun showing off when he came to America and fired real rifles and pistols for the very first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDfwyUgtjg

Air soft or BB training obviously works!

His restriction is Japanese law. Your restriction is ammo cost, availability and time to drive to the range. You can practice all you want in your back yard with modern replica training guns.

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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:06 am 
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I bought one of these a couple of weeks ago and they are as Ezra says they are, realistic and fun. I got a mag that holds 300 rounds. This mag will only load 20 rounds but you"recharge"it by pulling a lever on the bottom of the mag, you don't have to take the mag out of the gun. The jury is still out on this option. I think after a learning curve it should be ok.
I find that I cannot hit much using the sights on the BB gun, just like my real AR. I do better by folding the sights away and shooting like a shotgun.
I think my grandson will have some fun with it come Christmas.
Right now he is getting hyped for deer season, he has 2 permits for opening day Saturday.


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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:11 pm 
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I put a red dot on mine. Being that you will not have to bet your life on it a lower priced unit will do just fine as long as it is a reasonably close knock off of what you have on your real rifle. There are plenty of Chinese copies out there that can be had for less than $50.

I am just finishing off a third bulk can of 6000 Daisy BB's. That is 18,000 shots fired since June! That averages out to about 900 shots a week. And yes, I am getting much faster. My next purchase will be a higher end 1911 style BB pistol with a decent trigger. Sig supposedly makes a good one.

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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:38 am 
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Ezra, according to a you tube review ( there are so many I forgot which one) you can get more fps with plastic bbs. I thought I would try it but cannot locate the plastic ones. A search just turns up Air Soft products. Do you think this option is worth pursuing?


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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:31 pm 
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wrfish wrote:
Ezra, according to a you tube review ( there are so many I forgot which one) you can get more fps with plastic bbs. I thought I would try it but cannot locate the plastic ones. A search just turns up Air Soft products. Do you think this option is worth pursuing?


I have never used an Air Soft but it stands to reason that lightweight plastic ball will slow down very rapidly no matter how fast you start them.

As for my objective, which is training with multiple reactive targets, rapidly high velocity is a detriment. You need that slight delay between the pop at the muzzle and the ding of the target to know you hit it. Also, the target needs to move a little bit so that you know that you got your hit. For example, really high velocity projectiles tend to punch through cans so fast that they do not move. This is why you can shoot at a can with a .22 and think that you have missed until you walk up and find it full of holes. If you shot the same can with a typical BB gun it would have knocked it over. I want reactive targets and cans and aluminum pie plates need something around 400 fps or less to make them swing. Again, my objective is cheap high volume training that simulates fast close quarter combat. If I need more power I will just use a real rifle.

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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:02 pm 
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I was trying the gun out in my garage since I live in town and did not want to create a problem with the neighbors. I set up 4 layers of heavy cardboard ( cardboard furniture is shipped in).The bbs went through all 4 layers at 25 ft away.I had to hang a towel on the back side to stop the bbs. I guess 420 fps is fast enough.


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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:23 pm 
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It is more than adequate for dinging soda cans at ranges between five to ten yards. If you can quickly hit a multiple beer cans at ten yards with a BB gun you can also hit targets the size of a mans torso at 40 yards with a real rifle as they appear to be about the same size. Keep in context that this is a training tool. It is all about lining up a sight and pulling a trigger thousands upon thousands of times. Most people can't afford to do that with a real AR and even if they can, most can't practice in their own back yard and don't have time to go to the range.

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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:35 pm 
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Update:

I had my first real problems with the Crossman AR this evening. After firing several hundred shots without a hitch it suddenly stopped sending BB's out the barrel. It did so with both magazines. I knew I had plenty of gas by the sound so I figured it must be the gun as the odds of both magazines failing at the same time is very slim. Still, I took both magazines in and tried to figure out the problem and every time I did they started working perfectly again but just for a little while.

Then I noticed that the metal area where the feed lips would be on a real magazine was extremely cold. I warmed it up with a hair dryer and it started working perfectly again. Evidently these things can freeze up just like a real rifle can overheat if you shoot them too fast. It dawned on me that the reason is that we are having very cool weather. Even though I was shooting and changing mags no faster than I did back in the summer it was 40 degrees warmer then. I guess I ought to stick the magazines in my back pockets and keep them warm.

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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:40 pm
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Location: Sheridan, Il
Many years ago I played paintball for a year or two and the air line icing up was a problem in cold weather. On the gun I had, I could wrap some bare copper wire around it and connect it briefly to a 9v battery. The shorted wire heated up pretty fast and kept the line clear. Kind of a Rube Goldberg fix but it worked. I would get your gun is having a similar issue.

Thanks for starting this thread. I think this could provide some good training for action shooting sports or real life defensive shooting. You could easily add some movement to this for pretty realist training. Movement and greater than 90 degree shooting are things that are difficult to train for at most ranges so this is a good alternative.

John


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 Post subject: Re: 500+ rounds through pistol and carbine per week!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:54 pm 
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BE Chuter wrote:
You could easily add some movement to this for pretty realist training. Movement and greater than 90 degree shooting are things that are difficult to train for at most ranges so this is a good alternative.

John


I have. My soda can range consists of strings of cans tied between trees on both sides of my driveway. I can pivot a full 180 degrees alternating between targets in front and behind. I have NEVER seen a real range set up like that. It would be too dangerous unless you were in a dirt pit somewhere all by yourself.



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