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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:44 am 
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Humpty Dumpty wrote:
TOZ 34, 'souvenier' grade. 12 bores. Original value is 2 to 3 times the cost of low grade TOZ 34, if I'm not mistaken. If you picked the images from a Russian forum, drop a link.



Thanks for the quick info :) Its not from a russian forum, but from a private sellers ad on a online marketplace here in Norway. So, would you say that 1500 USD is a fair price? Price is per gun, and both will have an price of 2781 USD.

I'm considering checking them out as i'm in the market and have being borrowing a normal Star Baikal IJ-27M1C which i found very likeable.

Sellers say's its MC guns imported as Baikal? Is that the same as MT?
Is the quality of such a gun a lot better than a new Star Baikal being a TOZ, or is it foremost the decoration that makes it stand out?




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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:00 am 
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Location: Samara, Russia
Those are TOZ-34 model, made by Tula Armory (TOZ). There is a .001% chance these guns were finished at TSKIB, but in this case they ought to have a ЦКИБ stamp on the watertable among other proof marks. TsKIB guns were marketed as Vostok, not Baikal. Look up old Frankonia catalogues from late 1970s to mid-1980s, they used to have both if I'm not mistaken. A word of caution: Izh 27 and TOZ 34 are dramatically different in design, stock dimensions, weight and balance, simplicity of use and overall feel, so if you liked one it doesn't mean you're going to like the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:08 pm 
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Humpty Dumpty wrote:
Those are TOZ-34 model, made by Tula Armory (TOZ). There is a .001% chance these guns were finished at TSKIB, but in this case they ought to have a ЦКИБ stamp on the watertable among other proof marks. TsKIB guns were marketed as Vostok, not Baikal. Look up old Frankonia catalogues from late 1970s to mid-1980s, they used to have both if I'm not mistaken. A word of caution: Izh 27 and TOZ 34 are dramatically different in design, stock dimensions, weight and balance, simplicity of use and overall feel, so if you liked one it doesn't mean you're going to like the other.


Thanks again Humpty! I'm aware that they will be very different, but I would assume that quality-wise the difference is very noticeable, and that the TOZ is superior regardless if it fits me? About the Vostok branding, I just read an article on the topic (about an "Baikal" MC-8) and it seems that Vostok was marketed as Baikal in Sweden, and therefore it might also have been here in Norway? But i would definitely agree that it looks like a TOZ 34, and I will check back in here as soon as the seller gets the time to share some more information ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:17 pm 
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Location: Samara, Russia
TOZ guns tend to pattern better than Izh, but in other aspects TOZ has more quality issues than Izh.

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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:58 am 
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Humpty Dumpty wrote:
TOZ guns tend to pattern better than Izh, but in other aspects TOZ has more quality issues than Izh.


No intention of hijacking your magnificent thread here, so maybe I should make a seperate one?

Well, a close look at the photos reveal as you have correctly pointed out that the top one is a TOZ 34 E and the bottom an TOZ 34 ER with the padding.

So, my biggest question is whether the experts as yourself and TOZman would pay 1445 USD for one, most interested in the ER one? Will be used for "shock hunting" if that is the correct translation, of rock ptarmigan, hare and grouse, and the alternative would be a new IJ 27M-1C with warranty and full check-up at a gunsmith regarding pressure-testing and steel ammunition, or the Baikal 27 EM-M-1C. both around 740 usd.

I take it Steel (or tungsten), where the steel only will be used for practice on clays due to legislations, not compatible with the TOZ due to the "special" fixed choke, or just depending on which is fitted the the gun in question?

tnx again :)


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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:54 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
I am no expert, but I can provide my opinion:

- The TOZ-34 is lighter than the IZH-27 and may be more practical for the kind of hunting you have in mind.However, you can not use steel shot on the TOZ because of the fixed chokes. You may use the Tungsten-Matrix but they are very expensive.

- The IZH is heavier but more solid. You can use steel shot on the models that have interchangeable chokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:47 pm 
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Tozman wrote:
I am no expert, but I can provide my opinion:

- The TOZ-34 is lighter than the IZH-27 and may be more practical for the kind of hunting you have in mind.However, you can not use steel shot on the TOZ because of the fixed chokes. You may use the Tungsten-Matrix but they are very expensive.

- The IZH is heavier but more solid. You can use steel shot on the models that have interchangeable chokes.


Appreciate your input Tozman. And you point out my thoughts exactly. Lighter, better patterns, overall looks, and also better balance? Can you elaborate on how your TOZ feels regarding balance etc? Will it have more recoil being lighter?

For hunting the ammo is not a problem, but for practice-shooting at a range one mostly use a form of steel ammo here, so that is a no go then....ok.

I ended up buying some Rottweil Ultimate HP 12/70 3,0 mm tungsten (http://rws-munition.de/en/hunting/produ ... l#!1/90/42) for my last trip, as the bismuth was all gone, and I take it that is a bit to powerful to use in the TOZ? Harder than steel? Can't see that there is any description of it being a tungsten-matrix, so it does not have that rubber-mix? Was a bit worried with the Baikal I borrowed regarding pressure etc. but it survived. Fired 3 shells, and got one hare, and one of two Rock ptarmigan's.

Do you have an estimate regarding pressure-testing etc? Most important, how long is your arms? Not sure I can try it out before buying, so I would be taking a bit of a risk on that, as well as the general condition of the gun, as it has been sitting for 20 years without use.. Much appreciated if you could give me some measurements Tozman, on your arm and the gun from pad to trigger etc ;)

Update: Found a Danish gundealer who sells TOZ 34 E and ER for the crazy price of 1486 nok, which is 225 usd. 450 usd shipping..yikes.


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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:44 am 
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just two decent articles, to get the thread back in the right direction.

http://www.clayshootingusa.com/html/arc ... 20Star.pdf I see that it is the same one as TOZman posted but this link is working, the one on the first page seems to be faulty, so I'll leave it here.

http://www.jaktojagare.se/baikal-mc-8-e ... -guldbossa (sweedish)
MC8:
Image
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ImageImage


http://tvmir.ru/ohota_i_rybalka/oruzhie ... nye_ruzhya Seems to be a 13 min vid including the МЦ109 ...can't get it to play though...:S So i'd say it counts as picture :P

"Subject smoothbore hunting rifles continued in the third edition of "weapons." Visiting a leading collector Sergei Mironichev weapons. This time we will focus on Russian weapons. The collection of Sergei found 2 copies produced in this country, which will be discussed in the video online. The first gun - one of the most popular in the early 20th century trigger gun manufactured at the Tula Arms Plant. The second gun - a more modern instance of this shotgun MC-109. With these guns viewers will learn a lot about the Soviet and Russian arms culture"

МЦ + google = great success for most models. so much goodies...


Last edited by Rypebryst on Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:12 am 
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Tozman wrote:
Express rifle version of the MTs-7.

The MTs-7-09 is chambered for the 9 x 53 cartridge.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image



Hmm, I can't see ur pics, just get the IS frog...is that just me or?


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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:54 pm 
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[quote="Tozman"]These are not your everyday Baikals. These are the shotguns used by Russian olympic shooters, rich gun collectors etc. These firearms are made on special order. These shotguns are the Russian equivalents of the Perazzis and Krieghoffs. Some shotgun connaisseurs call them "Holland & Holland quality at Beretta prices".

This is fantastic, though some links are not more available... I have acquired this beautiful shotgun:

https://s3.postimg.org/wdhucutf7/201609 ... 21_001.jpg
https://postimg.org/image/xtvlpd4t1/
https://postimg.org/image/83gpbdqat/
https://postimg.org/image/uwqw5hzaj/
https://postimg.org/image/k35f5i50p/
https://postimg.org/image/lgtqlxlop/

Do you think it comes from the same factory?

Thanks!

Kan


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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:58 am 
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Location: Samara, Russia
Congratulations! Yes, this is MTs-11, a copy of Beesley self-opening patent made famous by Purdey, and one of the best models that TsKIB ever made. The serial number suggests the gun was started in 1960. It looks like an exhibition piece, or a gift for a VIP. In the latter case, it ought to have a medallion on the stock or inscription on the barrels indicating to whom it was given. One thing I don't quite like about it is that it doesn't have the full set of TsKIB proof marks. A possible explanation is that the gun was finished in a hurry. Are there the names of the engraver and the actioneer engraved under the fore-end?

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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:09 am 
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Not TsKIB, but perhaps the finest Baikals ever - the "Montreal Gun", engraved by Leonard Vassev for the Montreal World Expo. Well, in fact, this particular action didn't make it to the expo - it was ruined due to a screwup in the case hardening process, and Vassev had to create a copy. Photos by Mikhail Krechmar; for more details of the gun and its drama please visit my blog ;)

Image
Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:19 am 
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Humpty Dumpty, it is pretty old but engraving still looks good. By the way, it was interesting to read the full story on your blog :)

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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:58 am 
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Hi, I`m an owner of a MT 111-12 SS.
Serial no. N800475

What is there to be told about this shotgun and its value? It is lightly used and well taken care of since it was purchased in the early 1980s by my father.

https://i.imgur.com/Zr8cdM1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1gknSR0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8BSsc59.jpg

Many thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:56 am 
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Its a shame Photobucket has changed its third party hosting policy i cant see the pictures in the first 3 pages.


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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:57 am 
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Its a shame Photobucket has changed its third party hosting policy i cant see the pictures in the first 3 pages.


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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:57 am 
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Its a shame Photobucket has changed its third party hosting policy i cant see the pictures in the first 3 pages.


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 Post subject: Re: Russian Beauties: MTs Shotguns by TSKIB SOO (pictures)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Location: BC, Canada
I realize it has been quite a while since anything was posted on this topic, but I have a TSKIB-SOO shotgun which appears to be a MTs 6-12. I am including a link to a folder with photos of it. Does anyone know when approximately this would have been manufactured, where I could get parts or service for it if it needs it,and an approximate value for insurance purposes or at least what it might have cost when new?

Thanks

Ed

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t4nzjnp4r7c0 ... ESNXa?dl=0




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