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 Post subject: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:48 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:06 pm
Posts: 254
I am in need of a Rabbit gun,and really wanted to get something inexpensive. I also need a short barreled gun. I don`t want a 12 or 20..my favorite gauge is the 28,,so a Rem Express 870 with the 25" bbl is a possibilty..but the Mossberg .410 with the 24" bbl is also looking like a lot of fun,,and considerably less cash. So I would like to hear from people who use a .410 for rabbits/Squirrels. The shots I will be getting on Rabbits are sometimes as close as kicking a blowdown and flushing one out..heavy briar patches etc..so I don`t expect long shots. Any thoughts would be appreciated.




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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:34 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:46 pm
Posts: 1449
Location: SW Missouri
I use to have a single shot .410 and hunted both rabbits and squirrels with it. A friend of mine had the Mossberg pump .410 and also hunted rabbits and squirrels with it. It will do the job especially on rabbits which are usually shot closer than squirrels and are easier to kill than squirrels. I would highly recommend using 3 inch shells over the 2 1/2 inch ones. The 3 inch shells generally resulted in less wounding/cleaner kills for us. I would use #6 shot although you might get by with #7 1/2 shot for rabbits. #6 shot worked better for me. I have thought about getting a Yildz O/U .410 for rabbit hunting. But my 20 gauge Stoeger Uplander works so well I hate to not use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:57 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:31 pm
Posts: 388
For the money you can't go wrong with the Mossberg. Advise given above is spot on about shells. How ever for some odd reason I've found #4's pattern very well out of a lot of .410's. If you get one that patterns them it's a really great squirrel load. I've owned at least one .410 since I was 9 and I just turned 72. Wonderful little guns.


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 2:10 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:50 pm
Posts: 988
Location: ENGLAND
i use 12 gauge for all my shooting.


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:33 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:47 pm
Posts: 113
Location: N. IL
I love to hunt rabbits with a .410. I like a full choke barrel with 3" lead #6 shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:57 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 2895
Location: North Central West Virginia
Really, the 20 gauge is the best for rabbits. 1 oz #6 shot, or 7/8 0z for close shots.


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 4716
Location: Louisiana
I've used 1 oz. of #6 in 12 gauge quite a bit, and it works well. The rabbit don't much care if the 1 oz. is from a 12, a 16 or a 20 gauge...


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:03 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:39 pm
Posts: 2094
Try a .22 rifle or pistol. Opens up a whole new world, especially when you can hit them running.

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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:04 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:52 am
Posts: 5375
28 ga and inexpensive in the same sentence is an oxymoron. There will be a premium on it when compared to the 12 and 20 ga in the same lines. Same goes for ammo only more so.

For "inexpensive" I would go 20 ga as performance for your needs is not different to matter, the guns will be cheaper, the weight will be similar, the ammo is much less costly as well as readily found.

If you want a 28 then buy one. Just don't use "less expensive" as a justification.

As for the 410, much the same can be said for that as for the 28. Difference being a Mossberg 500 can be had for a lot less than a Rem 870 and 410 ammo is more commonly found than 28. I used an Iver Johnson single shot in 410 on a lot of game as well as a Browning Citori and found they worked well inside 25 yards but were quickly surpassed by the 20 beyond that range. I carry a 410 when I really don't want to shoot something, when I want to fill the pot, I grab a 20 ga or larger.


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:04 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:08 am
Posts: 1871
To add to what Ugly Dog says as I totally agree. An inexpensive 28 or 410 is also built on a 20 gauge frame and often weighs more. Get a 20, shoot less expensive ammo which can be found more commonly. You can also generally get a 20 with screw in chokes. Like others said, fur bearers seem to be better taken with a little heavier shot so you can take them without saturating them.

DP


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:39 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:46 pm
Posts: 271
Location: Western NY
I use an Ithaca model 37 16 gauge for rabbits.
I also like to take them with my bow.... I've been successful out to 40 yards.
Tasty critters!


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:03 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:46 pm
Posts: 1449
Location: SW Missouri
uglydog wrote:
28 ga and inexpensive in the same sentence is an oxymoron. There will be a premium on it when compared to the 12 and 20 ga in the same lines. Same goes for ammo only more so.

For "inexpensive" I would go 20 ga as performance for your needs is not different to matter, the guns will be cheaper, the weight will be similar, the ammo is much less costly as well as readily found.

If you want a 28 then buy one. Just don't use "less expensive" as a justification.

As for the 410, much the same can be said for that as for the 28. Difference being a Mossberg 500 can be had for a lot less than a Rem 870 and 410 ammo is more commonly found than 28. I used an Iver Johnson single shot in 410 on a lot of game as well as a Browning Citori and found they worked well inside 25 yards but were quickly surpassed by the 20 beyond that range. I carry a 410 when I really don't want to shoot something, when I want to fill the pot, I grab a 20 ga or larger.


28 gauge and .410 are less expensive IF you reload. The shot is the most expensive component when reloading so with the smaller payloads of these gauges, the savings are greater especially when factoring in the increased cost of factory ammo. Of course you can reload 3/4 ounce 12 gauge and 20 gauge shells as well and save a little too.


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:30 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:52 am
Posts: 5375
20 ga is still cheaper than 28 ga, even if one reloads. 3/4 oz, even 1/2 oz fit well in the 20 ga with a further savings as wads for the larger bore are cheaper as are hulls whether one initially buys factory or relies on used/new empties. This even more true as one rarely finds empty 28 ga hulls of any sort on the ground or in dumpsters while 20 ga of one sort or another is common. Buying empties is also cheaper for the 20 given the laws of supply and demand.

Add in the higher initial costs of gun, shells/hulls, components, and reloaded and the 28 ga will not catch the 20 ga, all else being equal. One will save more with the 28 compared to factory but comparing factory to factory or similar reloads to similar gives an advantage to the 20. The greater savings due volume of production for the 20 is a significant equalizer.


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:13 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:46 pm
Posts: 1449
Location: SW Missouri
uglydog wrote:
20 ga is still cheaper than 28 ga, even if one reloads. 3/4 oz, even 1/2 oz fit well in the 20 ga with a further savings as wads for the larger bore are cheaper as are hulls whether one initially buys factory or relies on used/new empties. This even more true as one rarely finds empty 28 ga hulls of any sort on the ground or in dumpsters while 20 ga of one sort or another is common. Buying empties is also cheaper for the 20 given the laws of supply and demand.

Add in the higher initial costs of gun, shells/hulls, components, and reloaded and the 28 ga will not catch the 20 ga, all else being equal. One will save more with the 28 compared to factory but comparing factory to factory or similar reloads to similar gives an advantage to the 20. The greater savings due volume of production for the 20 is a significant equalizer.


Ok, I admit that I have not researched what I am about to say so feel free to prove me wrong. While 20 gauge 7/8 ounce wads are no doubt cheaper than 28 gauge 3/4 ounce wads, I believe that 20 gauge wads for 3/4 ounce or lighter are more expensive than 7/8 ounce 20 gauge wads due to lower demand (same argument you are using for the 28 gauge) and are probably on par with 28 gauge 3/4 ounce wads. The vast majority of reloaded 20 gauge rounds are 7/8 ounce so the wads for different payloads are usually more expensive. Now you can add felt wads or Cheerios or whatever to fill in the space on a 7/8 ounce wad so that 3/4 ounce will fit and crimp correctly but this adds extra expense as well as time and you know what they say - time is money.

As for the hulls, I assume most people buy factory ammo with the hull they prefer to reload and reload their own empties. The vast majority of my reloads are that way and I reload 20 gauge hulls with 7/8 ounce shot. Sure, I pick up occasional hulls now and then but since I only reload Remington hulls, I pass on all others and most of what I find are not Remington. So it's not a reliable way to keep my hull supply stocked. When my reloaded hulls get worn out, I just buy some more factory Remington shells and then I have fresh hulls good for 7-10 reloads. So yes, the purchase price of the factory loads would be higher for the 28 gauge but the reloads cheaper comparing 7/8 ounce 20 gauge vs 3/4 ounce 28 gauge given that shot is the most expensive component. My post was pointing out the cost of the reloads only - not the other factors you mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:08 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:52 am
Posts: 5375
I don't know what wads for 3/4 oz 20 ga run as I have never bought or used them. I'm not sure I have even seen any in person. As it is as easy to load 3/4 oz in the 20 as it is for the 28, I added that in to make equal comparisons. For 30 some years I have used standard 20 ga wads for 3/4 without issues. This is with Remington and Winchester AA cases utilizing Win AA wads or Claybuster's equivalent and Green Dot powder. At one time the 20 ga was even cheaper as I used slightly less powder in the 20 ga than I would Unique to get equivalent performance from the 28 but newer powders have equaled this out.

From reading on this forum, if I were to have dished crimps, a piece of Wheat Puffs or similar cereal would be an inexpensive filler to adjust stack height. I haven't had to use it yet but the time will probably come.

Remington Gun Clubs are common on the ranges I shoot weekly with STS and AA ripe for the picking after registered shoots. The local farm store and the range sell Gun Clubs but the only other large stores where I have seen or heard selling them are Dick's and Academy. The former is over an hour away and the latter is not found in this state. Walmart used to carry Gun Clubs but it's been years since I last saw them on the shelf there.

28s are rare as hen's teeth on normal days with AA and STS nearly as rare after tournaments. The other brands of 28 hulls can be picked up but even they will quickly be picked up by the less discriminate. I hear other places see few Gun Clubs of and gauge which would color one's ability to gain freebies. Luckily that is not the case here and the only times I need to buy factory shells is when it is required in the tourney rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:40 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:08 am
Posts: 1871
28 ga users always use reloading as a way to justify the extra costs of shooting one. Arguing the difference in costs is kind of penurious. Both are cheap to reload and the differences in costs are pretty minor unless one does a lot of shooting, which on game I don't seem to get anymore. Both the 7/8 oz 20 and the 3/4 oz 28 are pleasant to shoot. I like my 28 for its carry qualities, but as discussed many are heavier than a 20 as they are built on 20 ga frames. If one likes semi autos the 20 can be had in a very light weight gun but the 3/4oz loads may not function well.
The 28 costs me more to reload. As Ugly dog mentioned, I have picked up enough cases from a gun range to last me a life time for hunting loads. Most are Federal and I could shoot them once and pitch them if needed. The semi auto does that for me at times but I generally like to use a double. The 28 requires that I buy cases or factory loads, which run nearly double that of a 20. Nor are they readily available.
So as to costs, I could go happily on my way using a 20 gauge with factory loads, which I can find easily without reloading. 28's and 410's are not as versatile for other game and cost more. I still would not go broke using them as most hunting is not that intense anymore.

DEP


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 Post subject: Re: Rabbit Gun
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:07 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:46 pm
Posts: 271
Location: Western NY
The dog got one last night....he did not use a shotgun...




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