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 Post subject: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:38 pm 
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I have a chance to hunt deer on a small (250 acres) ranch this year and its shotgun or muzzleloader only. I have lots of shotguns but no loaders so I' was going to put a slug gun together with what I have. I was going to use a Wingmaster Mag but the only non-bird barrel I have is a 18" police barrel with rifle sights and a cylinder bore. I was thinking of using this barrel with Federal Trueballs. I don't need long shots, maybe 75 yards at the long end. I havent ordered ammo yet. What do you experienced slug hunters think of this set up?



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1961 Wingmaster
1946 Model 12
1958 Superposed
1984 1100 Magnum
1972 JC Higgins Model 20
2011 Super X3 Composite "The Grey Ghost"


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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:46 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Western NY
I hunt in all shotgun/BP area. I am not a big fan of smoothbore and slugs. I could not begin to add up the hours I have spent tracking miss-hit deer or the number of deer I've mercy shot when they hobbled through with one leg hanging off.
I'd buy a rifled barrel for the 870 and use Rem Copper Solid Sabots. My 870 and rifled barrel shoots 2 inch groups at 100 yards. You will be surprised at how much that barrel will cost....that said, if you decide to go that route, go one step farther and buy a cantilevered barrel so that you can hang a scope on the gun. I guarantee that you'll hunt with iron sites for one year and wish you had a scope...set yourself up for it from the beginning.
With a smooth bore and slugs you'll be happy to get a 5 inch group at 75 yards (depending upon the slugs).
The Rem Accutips also work super well in this setup if you don't care about the lead splatter.

If these are not options (buying the barrel) go for the smokepole. The smokepole is going to reach out a bit farther, get you nice tight groups and a one shot kill.


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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:41 pm
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Location: Maryland
You can use the 18' bbl with rifle sights. Use any foster slug with it. Do not use sabot in a smooth bore. Now if you want a good slug gun, do what asemgerrish said get a new rifles bbl for sabot slugs, rifle sights or cantilever for scope. Now it's your decision . for what you will spend on a rifled cantelever bbl you can get a CVA wolf with a scope, I think about $225.00 to $250.00. or get one with just the rifle sights for less than $200.00. But then you will have to get the powder, sabots, shotgun primers. another maybe $75.00 or more. The CVA Wolfs is an accurate no problem BP rifle in that price range. I like the new rifled cantelever BBl with a low power scope mounted on it myself. Deadly out to 120 yds or a little more. Let us know what you decide. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:46 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Western NY
troutbum1 wrote:
Now it's your decision . for what you will spend on a rifled cantelever bbl you can get a CVA wolf with a scope, I think about $225.00 to $250.00. or get one with just the rifle sights for less than $200.00. But then you will have to get the powder, sabots, shotgun primers. another maybe $75.00 or more. The CVA Wolfs is an accurate no problem BP rifle in that price range.


Agree...having been down that path myself....
I'm now using a Knight MK-85.... it's hands down my favorite rifle behind my Model 94.... It's hole in hole at 100 yards. With 110 grains of Blackhorn 209 and a 50 cal. boat tail sabot it really has lethal knock down power...
I started out with a used CVA that I bought from a friend for $100..... less than a used Rem barrel.

Another point to note, if you start out with the idea that 75 yards will be your longest shot you can almost quarantee that the first good look you have at Mr. Drop Tine is at 101 yards. It's best to have a bit extra built into your setup...


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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:14 pm
Posts: 150
Thanks guys. I am looking into a rifled barrel. I have some months until deer season out here and can start saving. They are not that expensive. I will be hunting blacktail deer so they are not the biggest deer, I think 1 oz slugs will do the job. A smokepole is just not in the cards for me.

_________________
1961 Wingmaster
1946 Model 12
1958 Superposed
1984 1100 Magnum
1972 JC Higgins Model 20
2011 Super X3 Composite "The Grey Ghost"


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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:50 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Colebrook, NH
bux-n-dux wrote:
Thanks guys. I am looking into a rifled barrel. I have some months until deer season out here and can start saving. They are not that expensive. I will be hunting blacktail deer so they are not the biggest deer, I think 1 oz slugs will do the job. A smokepole is just not in the cards for me.


While a rifled sabot barrel isn't a bad choice if you plan to reach out, for your stated range(s) that setup you have should be more than adequate; you can buy quite a few slugs to try out for the cost of a rifled barrel, never mind the saboted-ammo too. Even if you can only put together 5-6" groups out to a hundred paces, that should be more than enough for for something deer-sized, where 1" groups are not by any means required. I've heard of numerous folks getting better groups than the half-a-foot size referenced above, but it might take some experimentation with different slugs to get there - so, not really any different than trying to find a 'good load' for anything else what launches a projectile really. Plus, you have the added versaility of retaining a smoothbore barrel, which is a very versatile tool itself, giving you the option of buckshot as well.

The Federal TruBalls are well regarded (their Estate brand slug seems to shoot well based on what I've seen), as the offerings from Brenneke. Many smoothbore hunters speak highly of the Winchester Super X offerings, and I like what I've seen hitting-power and accuracy-wise out of Remington's Slugger, albeit only at modest ranges. For holding up on impact, I would think the harder the slug, the better, which would lead me to look at Brenneke's stuff first...
No offense to the above input intended, but I would suspect that the reported injured deer/runoffs, etc. might be resulting from a softer Foster-type slugs breaking up when hitting bone and/or poor shot placement - either of those is an issue, and goes to back to wanting a slug that shoots conistently well enough in one's gun and is tough enough to penetrate and do the job so to speak.

Entirely up to you what you wish to do (it is nice having a gun with interchangeable barrels for things like this), but I wouldn't spend extra money & give up on that smoothbore setup until you've at least gone out and tried it {hs#

Kind Regards,

~ SH ~


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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:46 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Western NY
The Brennekes were an 8 plus inch group at 60 yards in my 870...with a smooth bore barrel.... once I saw that I understood why they were given to me.
I do agree that it's a good idea to try running a few boxes of shells through the gun just to see...but speaking from my experience, I'd go for a more accurate setup and be done with it. When you have a deer standing just at the end of your guns range and you are at maximum pucker the last thing you should be worried about is if you'll hit where you are aiming.


Last edited by emgerrish on Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:14 pm
Posts: 150
Unfortunately I live in California and buckshot is not an option for me. I can still use lead slugs for another couple years, but then I will be restricted to non tox, which most likely means copper, and as of now there are not many options there, and will most likely need a rifled barrel in 2 years to shoot legal ammo at all effectively. What do any of you know about "rifled" choke tubes and sabot slugs?

_________________
1961 Wingmaster
1946 Model 12
1958 Superposed
1984 1100 Magnum
1972 JC Higgins Model 20
2011 Super X3 Composite "The Grey Ghost"


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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:41 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Maryland
Go the way your going and finances allow. But really try to get a rifled canterlever bbl and add a scope to her. You will have a deadly combo that will reach out. You won't be sorry. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:46 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Western NY
bux-n-dux wrote:
Unfortunately I live in California and buckshot is not an option for me. I can still use lead slugs for another couple years, but then I will be restricted to non tox, which most likely means copper, and as of now there are not many options there,

Buy a couple boxes of Rem Copper Solids and move on. They are accurate and open beautifully on impact. Unlike lead the very sharp copper petals (mostly) remain attached and have a very devastating effect. They open to double the size upon impact...I've dug them out...they really do work as advertised.
They are available in either 2 3/4, 3 or 3 1/2 inch....I shoot the 3 from my Ithaca Model 87MAG. I find that the 3 1/2 are not as accurate at 100 yards....2 inch group instead of hole in hole.
From my 870 I get about a 2 1/2 inch group from the 3 inch shells at 100 yards, shorter barrel than the Ithaca and not a fixed barrel, not the same twist rate...still pretty good and certainly good enough...certainly better than settling for pie plate accuracy.


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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:50 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Colebrook, NH
bux-n-dux wrote:
Unfortunately I live in California and buckshot is not an option for me. I can still use lead slugs for another couple years, but then I will be restricted to non tox, which most likely means copper, and as of now there are not many options there, and will most likely need a rifled barrel in 2 years to shoot legal ammo at all effectively. What do any of you know about "rifled" choke tubes and sabot slugs?


Well, given that stipulation, the rifled barrel/Copper Solid option is probably the best place to start.... As for rifled choke tubes and sabots, I haven't heard much positive about that comibination, though said tubes seem to hold more promise with rifled slugs. Guns Magazine did an interesting - though by no means all-conclusive - slug test recently that might be of some interest: http://gunsmagazine.com/slugging-away/

Kind Regards,

~ SH ~


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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:50 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Colebrook, NH
emgerrish wrote:
The Brennekes were an 8 plus inch group at 60 yards in my 870...with a smooth bore barrel.... once I saw that I understood why they were given to me.
I do agree that it's a good idea to try running a few boxes of shells through the gun just to see...but speaking from my experience, I'd go for a more accurate setup and be done with it. When you have a deer standing just at the end of your guns range and you are at maximum pucker the last thing you should be worried about is if you'll hit where you are aiming.


Fair enough argument emgerrish {hs#

Surprised you couldn't get better accuracy from those Brennekes though; generally, the hard hitting German slugs have a good reputation for performance & accuracy in a wide range of guns and chokes. BTW, what choke/gun etc. were you using if I may ask?

Kind Regards,

~ SH ~

P.S. Lackluster though it may seem that 8" 60 yard group would likely still have brought home venison just fine if need be. I can understand wanting confidence in what you have & how far it will be effective though - ideally, a smoothbore might work to 125 yards or so - past that, a rifled barrel would obviously be the way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:47 pm
Posts: 102
Location: N. IL
Don't be afraid of a smooth bore barrel and rifled slugs. I have see Federal, Remington, and Winchester rifled slugs all kill deer very effectively. I have seen plenty of rifled slugs out of smooth bore barrels shoot well out to 75-80 yards.

How far do you need to shoot where you are going to be hunting? Try your 18" barrel but I like a 24" barrel and there is nothing wrong with a 28" smooth bore 870 barrel. I have seen full and modified chokes shoot slugs well. You can get rifle sites that clamp on a vent rib or you can get a reciever scope mount for your 870 and use a smooth bore barrel with rifled slugs. Sight your gun in and know its limitations.

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 Post subject: Re: First time with slugs for deer
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:14 pm
Posts: 150
I want to thank everyone. If during scouting trips the property is holding deer, I will proceed. Most likely I will invest in a 24" rifled barrel with rifle sights, maybe even some glass. If it looks like I will have this land to hunt for some time to come I think this is the best way to go to put deer down consistently. Good info and advice thanks again.



_________________
1961 Wingmaster
1946 Model 12
1958 Superposed
1984 1100 Magnum
1972 JC Higgins Model 20
2011 Super X3 Composite "The Grey Ghost"


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