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 Post subject: Browning Citori Lightning For Wife and Clays
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:30 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:08 am
Posts: 125
I'm only about a year into shooting clays now. I started with an early Superposed, 26" BBLs, 12 ga, and have since fell in love with an older 6lb., 16 ga SXS sidelock, 28" BBLs which is a dream to shoot. Anyways, I'm digressing..

Background:
My wife has become interested in shooting clays with me. She has a little experience with small arms, but until recently never fired a shotgun which was properly mounted. That was in large part to her small stature and all my guns being too big for her. Well I knew better than to try and get her started on anything I have, so I took her to be fitted with a try-gun and got her measurements taken down. She also took a lesson with a nearly correct fitting Ruger Red Label 20 ga O/U, and came away wanting more. I'm on the hunt for her own gun now. I know that in a perfect world, she should try out various guns and go with the one that speaks to her. The greatest challenge to that is where we live, there are not really any retailers that carry a decent selection of 20 ga O/U's which is what she, her instructor, and I all agree she should get first. Also,her LOP is only 12.5" which makes it even harder for her to try out anything and get a realistic feel for it before it's been fitted to her. Whatever we get her will be sent off to be adjusted/bent to her specs. She will only be using it for clays on a limited basis. She does not have a great deal of upper body strength, so weight of the gun must be considered and compromises made to both allow her to tolerate the recoil shooting several rounds of clays without becoming too tired holding up a too heavy gun. So.
Realizing she knows almost zero to nothing about shotguns, I'm gonna make the purchase for her and if it doesn't work out, learn and move on.

Our criteria:
1. She likes the single select trigger platform, thus no double triggers
2. Budgeting btwn $500-$1500 for initial purchase
3. Screw in chokes not mandatory but a plus
4. 20 ga. 6-6.5Lbs, (she thought the 7 lb Ruger too heavy, this might change with time/experience)
5. Prefer well made, proven design that has a reputation for reliability, thus probably will go with a used gun. Leaning towards Italian or Japanese made guns with the sst.
6. Want gun to be adjustable within the range of her fitting requirements.
7. At 5'3" tall, going with 26" BBLs.

So far, I've been looking hard at the Franchi, Beretta, SKB (and spin offs), and Brownings. All O/Us. I've about decided on a mid 90's vintage Browning Citori Lightning, invector chokes, less than a case of shells shot through it, looks like a new gun. Just over $1K. When we get it, I'll have a three day inspection period. If she likes what she sees, and I don't find anything wrong, we'll get that and I'll ship it off to be adjusted to her.

Does this make since? I think I'm doing all I can to make sure she get's a first gun that will fit her, not hurt her, and hold up to normal use. I'm hearing from some that even with LIGHT loads, a 6-6.5LB fixed breech gun is too light for adequate recoil reduction. We will also be investing in her own shooting vest with gel pad insert. If she can at least get started with it without becoming frustrated and move forward learning and enjoying the sport, we can always go to something else once she has learned enough to know what she likes and needs.




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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori Lightning For Wife and Clays
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:37 pm 
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my wife: 30 inch bbls for helice, 32 for clays. :idea:

A 6.5 lb 20g w/ short bbls will kick and be very loud.

Don't sell your wife short. :D

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Our prentice Tom may now refuse
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O'er the hills and far away.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori Lightning For Wife and Clays
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:51 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:49 am
Posts: 28
I am going to make a suggestion as I am a small woman, too( 5 feet 1"). I started with a 12 gauge which I felt was too heavy after a few stations. Everyone told me to get a 20 gauge. Yes, it's lighter weight, but it kicked more. Also, once you have that stock shortened as much as you're talking about to a 12 and 1/2 LOP- you're going to lose more weight and the barrels will be on the short side, and the gun may not balance well. Anyway, even with a 3/4 oz load I would still be bruised with my 20 gauge. Enter my love affair with the 28 gauge. I started with a Beretta baby frame 28 gauge with 26" barrels. Lightweight just over 6 pounds, patterns beautifully. The stock was so beautiful I could never bring myself to have it chopped off. When the Syren line came out and I decided to buy another gun, everyone tried to talk me into a 20 gauge again, but I stuck to my guns (LOL) and bought another 28 gauge choosing the field version with 28" barrels for 2 reasons. 1) it was lighter weight than the Sporting version and 2) the prince of wales grip fit my small hand better than the pistol grip. I had Caeser Guerini fit it, shorten the stock, and put a Kick Ez pad on it and I am in Heaven! I can easily shoot it as well as many of the guys with their 12 gauge guns. Never let anyone say you can't shoot Clays with a 28 gauge. Now I realize that the shells are more expensive, but a 28 gauge is a delight to shoot. and although the Syren line is over your budget, maybe check out some other 28 gauges.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori Lightning For Wife and Clays
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:07 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3509
Location: Dallas, TX
Not sure if you're insistent on an O/U, if not, have her try some 6.2-6.5 lb gas operated semi-autos.

My wife enjoys her Beretta A400 in 20ga. I don't like cleaning it for her, but hey... :-)

O/U's are a lot easier to clean.

I think BunnyH is probably giving you the best advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori Lightning For Wife and Clays
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:52 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:08 am
Posts: 125
BunnyH wrote:
I am going to make a suggestion as I am a small woman, too( 5 feet 1"). I started with a 12 gauge which I felt was too heavy after a few stations. Everyone told me to get a 20 gauge. Yes, it's lighter weight, but it kicked more. Also, once you have that stock shortened as much as you're talking about to a 12 and 1/2 LOP- you're going to lose more weight and the barrels will be on the short side, and the gun may not balance well. Anyway, even with a 3/4 oz load I would still be bruised with my 20 gauge. Enter my love affair with the 28 gauge. I started with a Beretta baby frame 28 gauge with 26" barrels. Lightweight just over 6 pounds, patterns beautifully. The stock was so beautiful I could never bring myself to have it chopped off. When the Syren line came out and I decided to buy another gun, everyone tried to talk me into a 20 gauge again, but I stuck to my guns (LOL) and bought another 28 gauge choosing the field version with 28" barrels for 2 reasons. 1) it was lighter weight than the Sporting version and 2) the prince of wales grip fit my small hand better than the pistol grip. I had Caeser Guerini fit it, shorten the stock, and put a Kick Ez pad on it and I am in Heaven! I can easily shoot it as well as many of the guys with their 12 gauge guns. Never let anyone say you can't shoot Clays with a 28 gauge. Now I realize that the shells are more expensive, but a 28 gauge is a delight to shoot. and although the Syren line is over your budget, maybe check out some other 28 gauges.


Bunny, how did you find the switch from 26" to 28" bbls to be? I'm seeing more options available in the 28" bbls but we have been warned away from exceeding 26" bbls. You mentioned the issue of balance when the stock is cut down, that could be addressed with some weight added back in the form of judicious lead weights in the stock, but that's getting out there..


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori Lightning For Wife and Clays
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 13494
284: My wife went thru everything you are talking about. 1st someone said "short bbls" , this was wrong and there was no evidence to support it.

Then , cut down the stock. This too was wrong , b/c it lessened the weight and changed the weight distribution (and thus balance).

Having a light gun may feel good in the short run , but recoil will ruin the experience in short order. The gun does not have to be flung around the sky , short controlled movements are much more effective. Developing good hold points is much better than simply chasing the targets from way behind.

Women's dimensions are different. They will need a higher comb, a lower butt-pad , more pitch , etc. You may not want to go thru all this hassle. If you do , you will have a life-long shooting partner.

_________________
Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori Lightning For Wife and Clays
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:45 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:49 am
Posts: 28
284wahoo wrote:
BunnyH wrote:
I am going to make a suggestion as I am a small woman, too( 5 feet 1"). I started with a 12 gauge which I felt was too heavy after a few stations. Everyone told me to get a 20 gauge. Yes, it's lighter weight, but it kicked more. Also, once you have that stock shortened as much as you're talking about to a 12 and 1/2 LOP- you're going to lose more weight and the barrels will be on the short side, and the gun may not balance well. Anyway, even with a 3/4 oz load I would still be bruised with my 20 gauge. Enter my love affair with the 28 gauge. I started with a Beretta baby frame 28 gauge with 26" barrels. Lightweight just over 6 pounds, patterns beautifully. The stock was so beautiful I could never bring myself to have it chopped off. When the Syren line came out and I decided to buy another gun, everyone tried to talk me into a 20 gauge again, but I stuck to my guns (LOL) and bought another 28 gauge choosing the field version with 28" barrels for 2 reasons. 1) it was lighter weight than the Sporting version and 2) the prince of wales grip fit my small hand better than the pistol grip. I had Caeser Guerini fit it, shorten the stock, and put a Kick Ez pad on it and I am in Heaven! I can easily shoot it as well as many of the guys with their 12 gauge guns. Never let anyone say you can't shoot Clays with a 28 gauge. Now I realize that the shells are more expensive, but a 28 gauge is a delight to shoot. and although the Syren line is over your budget, maybe check out some other 28 gauges.


Bunny, how did you find the switch from 26" to 28" bbls to be? I'm seeing more options available in the 28" bbls but we have been warned away from exceeding 26" bbls. You mentioned the issue of balance when the stock is cut down, that could be addressed with some weight added back in the form of judicious lead weights in the stock, but that's getting out there..


To me, for my height and shorter arms and limited strength 28" in an O/U is the perfect length. My original 12 gauge semi had a 28" barrel and I felt it was a bit too long. My 20 gauge has 28" barrels, too. I don't find much difference in weight between the 26" barrels and the 28" barrels, but I like the longer barrels for "pointing". One other thing I'll mention is I like the Beretta stocks better than the Browning (my 12 gauge was a Ladies Browning Golden Clays). I just find the Beretta not as hefty. Had the Syren line not come out I was thinking of buying a 28 gauge Beretta Silver Pigeon on a baby frame in a field version with 28" barrels and having the stock altered. I don't think your wife should have any issues with 28" barrels.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori Lightning For Wife and Clays
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:29 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:08 am
Posts: 125
Thanks to all for your insight and input to my questions. We settled on a Citori WL 16 ga., 28" bbls. She shot some 7/8 oz loads with my 6 LB., 16ga SXS which has no recoil pad, and there was no padding in her vest. No issues. Her 16 ga. Citori is 7 lbs, will have a recoil pad, she will get a reactor pad for her vest, and I will get some lite 3/4 oz loads to try. She likes the grip, and is happy with it so far. Once I've had a chance to verify BBL's are properly regulated, off it will go to be adjusted for her specs, with a Kick-EEZ pad added. When it comes back it should be at her proper LOP, DAH, and cast-off, etc. Wish it weren't so far from my own LOP, I think I'd like to shoot this one too.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori Lightning For Wife and Clays
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:56 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:00 am
Posts: 393
Location: West Texas
284wahoo wrote:
Thanks to all for your insight and input to my questions. We settled on a Citori WL 16 ga., 28" bbls. She shot some 7/8 oz loads with my 6 LB., 16ga SXS which has no recoil pad, and there was no padding in her vest. No issues. Her 16 ga. Citori is 7 lbs, will have a recoil pad, she will get a reactor pad for her vest, and I will get some lite 3/4 oz loads to try. She likes the grip, and is happy with it so far. Once I've had a chance to verify BBL's are properly regulated, off it will go to be adjusted for her specs, with a Kick-EEZ pad added. When it comes back it should be at her proper LOP, DAH, and cast-off, etc. Wish it weren't so far from my own LOP, I think I'd like to shoot this one too.



I think you did the right thing for her. A lightly loaded 16 gauge is a dream to shoot.



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