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I was taught many years ago to shoot using the "swing through" lead whereby I aim at the opening of the house, pick up the bird in flight and shoot as I swing through the bird while continuing to swing the gun. I have also shot using a sustained lead where I pick up the bird and hold a given lead depending on the station and hoe the birds are flying that day.

I still have better scores using the swing through method vs. sustained and, this may be simply because I am more comfortable using this method. I also shoot doves and quail using this method.

Does anyone else use what I call the "swing through"? What are your opinions of this method?

Thanks

If swing through means starting behind the bird, then swinging through it, no. I shoot low gun; I pick up target, mount, then swing ahead and fire when I have the proper lead(at least I "think" I have the proper lead). This is how I hunt waterfowl, so I use the same technique with skeet...except I pre-mount for station 8.

I start my swing in front of the bird as I lowgun, but with the safety on, and finger off the trigger.
i do this because although I love skeet, It's purpose these days for me is for bird hunting practise.
I also shoot station 8 the same way.
However, I sometimes, swing through my second bird, mainly because I am "catching up" to it!
Davide

Top skeet shooters do not use it as their primary method, but all skeet shooters need to be able to do it from time to time.

Sustained lead is the method used by about 99.9% of competitive skeet shooters of A Class and above. As far as quail shooting is concerned, starting behind the bird usually means holding a loaded gun at the dog's head. Maybe Jland could explain.

When quail hunting I aim the gun in the direction I think the birds will flush. I DO NOT ever point a gun at one of my dogs nor allow anyone else to. Most of the quail I shoot are hunted over my pointers and flushing labs. I pass up a lot of shots rather than take a chance on a dog being hit. As we all know, birds do not always flush exactly where you think they will so I usually use the swing through method to shoot them.

The main problem with swing thru is that how much lead you need is a function of how far back you started (which then relates to how fast your gun barrel is swinging.) If you start just a little behind the bird, you need more apparant lead than if you start much farther behind the bird (where barrel speed would be faster). This puts you in the position of having multiple firing control solutions, only one of which is right at any given bird. With sustained lead where you match barrel speed to bird speed (with the appropriate lead), the lead required to kill the bird works over a much broader range of the birds flight path. Those that have grown up using swing thru, however, can still run them all. When I first started Skeet, I was confused by the differences in recommend leads for each of the stations from various authors. I finally figured out that some of the older Skeet books I had were using a swing thru method, but had not quite identified it as such. Yet another approach is the pull ahead. Match the bird speed while pointing at it, then pull ahead at the last instant to obtain the correct lead. All these methods may be using in one instance or another. If I get beat by a bird, for instance, I am automatically a swing thru shooter at that point.

Ditto, you want to shoot sustained lead, since this allows you to break the target at any set given break point quickly (you control the break point). With the target getting in front of the barrel, that leads to you having to run the target down after such (read target traveling too far out), and makes the target setting the break point in stead of you.

But, no mater who you are, a target is going to beat you every once in a while (get in front of the barrels). When this happens, you need to be able to run a target down and break it through pull through as well (or shrug the pull off, and whine about a bad pull like a little girl to divert the blame of why you did not take the shot ).

i have been reading these posts with great interest.....i have not shot alot of skeet but have started shooting a bit with my sons.....i understand that the sustained lead is the lead of choice but try as i might i end up using the swing through method....not by choice, though. on stations 3,4, 5 i try for a hold point about 1/3 of the way to the center stake but each time the darn pigeon gets by me and i have to swing like h*ll to catch it and get ahead of it. my eyes are not what they use to be nor are my reflexes..but darn the luck, i am only 55 years young....anyone have any tips they care to share.....

okc

My eyes are getting worse every month it seems.
My father, FWIW, shot with the gun just slightly off his shoulder, and mounted as he swung.
It worked very well for him when he shot NSSA skeet, and Ii often shoot this way when practising for walking up birds.
try it, you may find that it helps.......
Davide

Yes, find a good set of shooting glasses with the right color lens for you that will make the targets stand out from the back ground. After that, it's only a matter of focusing on the needed space to see the flash, hence time to make the move.

Without actually seeing you shoot, I'd hazard a guess that you are looking down the shotgun barrel when you call for the bird. That guarantees you'll be late picking up the bird no matter how far out you hold. Remember that every station has a foot position, a hold position, and a look position. For your 3-4-5 stations, your hold point sounds right. Once to put your shotgun at your hold point, move your eyes (only) back about half way to the house. This is where you stare to pick up the bird. When you see the bird here, lock on it visually AND start moving your gun. Adjust you gun speed to match bird speed at the correct lead and pull the trigger. Never take your eyes off the bird. You do not stare down the barrel to hit a bird anymore than you stare at the end of a baseball bat to hit a baseball.

...Bob_K...

without a doubt i am looking down the barrel..and dont see the target....i here the the bird being released and then the thing is by me 'fore i know it......will give these bits of advice a try...thanks to all....

okc

For skeet and clays I find the presentation dictates which I use. Quail I have hunted for almost 60 yrs now and for a covey flush I don't think about the shot I just do it. At my age I am lucky enough to still get more than my fair share!

Have you or have you seen Todd Bender's skeet video? If not, I highly recommend it.

JLand, it is important to understand that, virtually, 100 per cent of the top skeet shooters in American skeet have OCD. This personality disorder likes endless repetition (like 100's of broken clays to win a tournamen; 100 even to qualify), and they have developed a style of shooting, which is sustained lead, heavy gun, relatively, long barrel, short swing....the style was defined to be repetitive.

An OCDer will seek this repetition as a solution to life's duress signals, and there is nothing wrong with OCD, and, in fact, the most successful people you know will, many times, have mild OCD. However, in their success, they will say, "look at me", I am the best, and, therefore, you should shoot like me...it's, "my way or the highway", and they will demean those that disagree. It's a very predictable pattern, and these people are VERY predictable in all phases of their life.

People will tell you that you should shoot sustained, if you want to be a champion. That's not really true. The shooters are better, today, not because they shoot sustained (as opposed to pass-through), but because the sport has attracted many, many, many more people with extreme personality disorder (OCD), and within that disorder they have developed a shooting style that caters to their disorder.

Understand that only about 30 per cent of the population of shooters can shoot like a champion American skeet shooter. Yet, this style is accepted for all, INCLUDING WOMEN, and it is absolutely insane to think in this manner.

Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with sustained shooting, but just understand that it is not superior to any other form of shooting to lead. You see, these lead forms are inconsequential to the superiority you have in the game with a shot pattern that reaches your target in about 5/100ths of a second the size of a garbage can cover (approx).

Understand what I am saying here. I, seriously, doubt that anybody can beat an OCD champion skeet shooter. However, if you are going to beat him, and you don't have OCD, you won't beat him with his style of shooting...you will have to beat him with your own style of shooting.

"Hard focus" is another area that you might want to change, if you are crossed in the eyes or have any attention disorders. There are just so many issues that should be defined, based on the personality make-up of the shooter, and his physical abilities.

Lastly, women who shoot skeet will so screw themselves up listening to a champion male, OCD, American skeet shooter that they will have no chance to shoot better scores than men, even though the women are FAR SUPERIOR skeet shooters....like five times better than men. A woman, properly, trained cannot be beaten...you can't beat perfect scores. And they can do it with pass through or sustained.

A World title was earned in .410 with a one-eyed shooter, pass through. It can be done.

The only endless repetition that I'm aware of hereabouts is Rem II's continual loop dialog with himself regarding his "expert" opinion on the mental health of others....people who I guarantee he does not know.

JLand - Sustained lead is one of many advances that has allowed the performance of shooters in American Skeet to progress well beyond the results acheieved by competitors of earlier eras. Modern ammo being another notable advance along with the tube set equipped OU, and the consistency of modern clay targets and the machines that throw them.

Sustained lead is by far the most transportable (as in able to be applied by the greatest number of people of various levels of natual skill) American Skeet technique as it actually reduces the need for sheer athletic talent when compared to the precise timing required by swing through.

Any other balderdash you are being fed is..... balderdash.

I disagree. Sustained lead has been used since the beginning of modern powders and primers. It is not new. It was taught to me by my skeet mentor in the 50's. It was the same technique taught to me by my dad for shooting game birds prior to my skeet adventures.

okcoyote - Bob K gave you excellent advise. We need not only a hold point for the gun, but a look point that allows us to see the streak of the target, begin to move, and then match target speed and shoot at the point on the field that we want.

Bob K gave you a starting point...but everybody's eyes are different. Me...I like to look right at the window on the middle stations. Even Todd Bender says that everybody's look points are something they have to find for themselves based on their vision and reaction times.

Another little technique to help acquire the target is called Quiet Eyes. Mount the gun at your hold point, shift your eyes to your look point, and wait 1.5 - 2 seconds, THEN call for the bird. By letting your eyes settle at your look and you will see the bird quicker and with more focus. If your eyes are still dancing around and you have an indefinite focal point, your eyes are going to look for something to glomb onto and the biggest thing in front of your nose is your barrel, which is not a good thing.

Give it a try...you have nothing to lose. I have found this very helpful.

Cheers

Hi David - so, in the 50's did you find sustained lead to be commonly used? Was it the predominant method? How about in the 30's or 40's? I think the point I'm trying to make is that sustained lead is the accepted technique now and is almost universally taught, a condition I do not believe (but defer to your longer experience) was so in earlier eras.

Do you agree with Rem II that sustained lead is a technique only usefull to the OCD inflicted among us and that swing through should be used by those of more flexible mental states? It was his post to which I was responding.

Cheers