It is currently Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:20 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:04 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:39 pm
Posts: 8075
Location: NC USA
se2884 wrote:
Labloverva made the gouging statement.


I think most here can make a pretty good judgement as to what those target cost mean to the normal guy......

I won't go past that comment.

I did mention the game will be for the affluent AGAIN eventually......



_________________
Skeet aren't hard to hit, just easy to miss....!!

The words of my late best friend, Eye Missum.......I miss him at every skeet shoot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 3332
cbxchris wrote:

I did mention the game will be for the affluent AGAIN eventually......


Sooner than the non-affluent want.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:03 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:02 pm
Posts: 5023
Location: Central Pennsylvania and Southwest Florida
I thought we were already to that point.

_________________
{hs#
Jim

(Warning: To those that read my posts.)
I don't shoot registered targets so what could I possibly know or have to offer?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:37 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:25 pm
Posts: 8
You guys need to focus on the important stuff at these events. The food each night, especially Saturday night was well worth the admission price at the US Open!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:19 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:30 pm
Posts: 215
I had originally planned to go to the Open this year but i had life issues and work issues that conflicted with the US Open. This thread like a lot on this forum bring up excellent reasons why this sport is slowly in decline.

This is my first real year of registered birds. Shot a few small ones last year but this year i have shot a few large ones, a decent amount of medium sized ones, and a decent amount of small shoots. I vastly enjoy shooting all three sizes of shoots. Being younger i don't have as much money as someone who is reaching retirement+. However i do well enough, and can afford to shoot a decent amount of registered shoots big and small. With that said $60+ per 100 for 5 events spread out over 4 days is very expensive to do twice a month+ during the shooting season especially when you figure in lodging and travel expenses. I understand these prices will never change and if they do they will only go up. However you would think the NSSA would put more stock into trying to get small clubs involved in hosting shoots. I don't know how they would do that, but the cheaper shoots is where everyone starts off shooting. The more people shooting registered the more NSSA makes. All-American points are probably part of the problem, and i have friends that only shoot at medium-large shoots for this reason. I understand Class All-American but honestly does anyone actually care about Class All American?

Those bringing up the food these larger shoots give to shooters, its something i could go without. I've been to $60+ per 100 shoots that offered no lunch/dinner either (or at least nothing to get worked up about if they do offer "free" food). I've also been to small $35-40 per shoots that included a great dinner and actually had a decent payout if you won (even class). When it comes down to it the real reasons people shoot big shoots, is a chance to actually win money and for points. These two reasons are the only real reasons. Nothing wrong with either, however its part of the downfall of this sport. Less small shoots, the less people will be interested.

With all that said i dont know how the NSSA "corrects" the issue. I really do enjoy this sport, and i do enjoy shooting big and small shoots. Both have an appeal for different reasons. I just don't want to see the sport die.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:01 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 3332
schlarmanm1 - Do you have sporting clays in your neighborhood?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: US Open
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:13 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:30 pm
Posts: 215
ShowMe wrote:
schlarmanm1 - Do you have sporting clays in your neighborhood?


I do, why? The local sporting clays course charges $50 per 100 for practice. Beautiful place, fun to shoot but not affordable to shoot 200-400 a week for practice. Considering I can shoot 300 birds at my skeet club for less then the cost to shoot one round of sporting I'll likely never get into that sport.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:29 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 3332
schlarmanm1 wrote:
ShowMe wrote:
schlarmanm1 - Do you have sporting clays in your neighborhood?


I do, why? The local sporting clays course charges $50 per 100 for practice. Beautiful place, fun to shoot but not affordable to shoot 200-400 a week for practice. Considering I can shoot 300 birds at my skeet club for less then the cost to shoot one round of sporting I'll likely never get into that sport.


Most new shooters around here opt for sporting clays. But sporting is much more affordable hereabouts ($12 - $14 per 50) and more convenient (two afternoons/evenings and every Sunday within 12 easy traffic miles). Plus just one gun, cheap ammo, and many are satisfied shooting a lot less sporting than skeet.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:27 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 3332
schlarmanm1 wrote:
With all that said i dont know how the NSSA "corrects" the issue.


The movers and shakers in the sport don't see anything that needs corrected. They live in the world of the Top 50 shoots, many at the Top 20 shoots. They like it the way it is. Why would they correct what they like?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:38 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 125
Location: UK
schlarmanm1 wrote:
With all that said i dont know how the NSSA "corrects" the issue. I really do enjoy this sport, and i do enjoy shooting big and small shoots. Both have an appeal for different reasons. I just don't want to see the sport die.


This is not aimed at you but i am picking up on your point.

NSSA don't and shouldn't - simple. They provide the spectacle and background that drives the improvement and desire in shooters by them seeing the larger shoots. Then people wanna get good so they can attend / do not feel out of place at bigger shoots.

If local shooters want smaller one day shoots at their local club then they need to get involved and volunteer and show the club that it is worth their while going to the effort. If the people constantly knocking NSSA for not doing enough to promote small club level shoots and single layout clubs put as much effort into doing it for themselves then the sport would be better for it.

As an example.....

Back in 2014 i approached a club that had NEVER thrown a registered target in its 30yr+ history and asked them if they would consider registered NSSA once a month as a few local guys wanted to shoot it. Single layout, maybe 800 -1000 targets a month total. I laid out a plan and got the club owner to buy into it.

I paid the clubs first years registration fee myself, i did EVERYTHING except set targets. This grew from "any gauge" once a month to now the club runs regular events 4 x 50, 3 gun events, 200 target ironman events, takes part in satellite Zone shoots with a full 5 x 100 shoot once a year laying on free food at certain events (which again i did out my own pocket for 2 years to show it can be done / is worthwhile) and in 2016 threw 39,000 registered targets + all the extra practice targets they now throw. Given the whole UK only throws about 300,000 NSSA targets a year a single range club throwing over 10% is superb from nothing 3.5 years ago.

The club is now running and doing everything themselves and has had nearly 60 x 100 straights shot at it which is good going over here. They have also built a second range.

Prices are about $40 a hundred (no cash prizes) which is good value over here again as we pay generally a lot more to shoot in the UK than USA.

NSSA does not have the time or resources to promote and encourage every small one range club with 10-20 shooters who would shoot NSSA targets. It is up to the shooters to help and encourage each other and the smaller cubs then they will run with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:54 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 147
Great post Ray. This is exactly the type of behaviour at the club level that is required to support the membership numbers within the NSSA. Tossing new shooters into a four gun shoot right away will just scare them away, costs/time expectations/disappointment of having trying to keep up with shooters with years of experience etc.
Gradually bringing in (or bringing back) shooters requires a slow ramp up for them. The NSSA is there to help in some ways but to truly get/reintroduce shooters into registered shooting it will require the grass roots guys that are happy to put in the time for the non lifers like ourselves and convert those shooters into lifers.

I was at the US Open (drove 15 hours to get there) and really enjoyed the shoot. It was basically a full shoot. Who the shooters were that made up the 220+ entries is irrelevant, having a rotating shoot is all about letting more people attend the "national" shoot on occasion and give it a try. Next year it's in Houston and most of the mid west guys likely won't attend, but the South East and Texas guy will be there. Maybe the East coast guys won't attend next year, we'll see. But I'm certain it will be at or close to full capacity again.

I'm at around 70K targets and I have run around a hundred shoots over the years from the smallest shoots to several top 20 shoots, so I feel I have a true sense of what's going on in the sport. There are a lot of challenges to make shooters at all levels of commitment happy, but returning to basics for the non top 100 shoots is required to keep membership levels in registered shooting stable.

Big shoots require larger entry fees if they are going to take over these major complexes for a week at a time and you want paid referees, reasonable returned money, etc.

Mike Maddin
NSSA#150839


skeetfreak wrote:
schlarmanm1 wrote:
With all that said i dont know how the NSSA "corrects" the issue. I really do enjoy this sport, and i do enjoy shooting big and small shoots. Both have an appeal for different reasons. I just don't want to see the sport die.


This is not aimed at you but i am picking up on your point.

NSSA don't and shouldn't - simple. They provide the spectacle and background that drives the improvement and desire in shooters by them seeing the larger shoots. Then people wanna get good so they can attend / do not feel out of place at bigger shoots.

If local shooters want smaller one day shoots at their local club then they need to get involved and volunteer and show the club that it is worth their while going to the effort. If the people constantly knocking NSSA for not doing enough to promote small club level shoots and single layout clubs put as much effort into doing it for themselves then the sport would be better for it.

As an example.....

Back in 2014 i approached a club that had NEVER thrown a registered target in its 30yr+ history and asked them if they would consider registered NSSA once a month as a few local guys wanted to shoot it. Single layout, maybe 800 -1000 targets a month total. I laid out a plan and got the club owner to buy into it.

I paid the clubs first years registration fee myself, i did EVERYTHING except set targets. This grew from "any gauge" once a month to now the club runs regular events 4 x 50, 3 gun events, 200 target ironman events, takes part in satellite Zone shoots with a full 5 x 100 shoot once a year laying on free food at certain events (which again i did out my own pocket for 2 years to show it can be done / is worthwhile) and in 2016 threw 39,000 registered targets + all the extra practice targets they now throw. Given the whole UK only throws about 300,000 NSSA targets a year a single range club throwing over 10% is superb from nothing 3.5 years ago.

The club is now running and doing everything themselves and has had nearly 60 x 100 straights shot at it which is good going over here. They have also built a second range.

Prices are about $40 a hundred (no cash prizes) which is good value over here again as we pay generally a lot more to shoot in the UK than USA.

NSSA does not have the time or resources to promote and encourage every small one range club with 10-20 shooters who would shoot NSSA targets. It is up to the shooters to help and encourage each other and the smaller cubs then they will run with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:13 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:30 pm
Posts: 215
skeetfreak wrote:

This is not aimed at you but i am picking up on your point.

NSSA don't and shouldn't - simple. They provide the spectacle and background that drives the improvement and desire in shooters by them seeing the larger shoots. Then people wanna get good so they can attend / do not feel out of place at bigger shoots.

If local shooters want smaller one day shoots at their local club then they need to get involved and volunteer and show the club that it is worth their while going to the effort. If the people constantly knocking NSSA for not doing enough to promote small club level shoots and single layout clubs put as much effort into doing it for themselves then the sport would be better for it.


NSSA does not have the time or resources to promote and encourage every small one range club with 10-20 shooters who would shoot NSSA targets. It is up to the shooters to help and encourage each other and the smaller cubs then they will run with it.


I want to start by saying it sounds like you've done a lot to help a local club. Many don't have the interest or time to devote to their local club, the sport or the NSSA and for that I thank you!

I understand your points and honestly they're good points! However it doesn't take a genius to see the game is in decline. My club that I'm now an officer at use to hold a bunch of registered tournaments. Some even with added money. Everything from one day shoots to full shoots. Many reasons this has ended (im hoping to bring it back in the near future but that's not the point). Some saying the guy who use to run the club was the reason, others say it had to do with the lousy targets from old worn out western traps, others have told me it had to do with the pricing, and some of the members chasing points claim that's the reason (that they didn't participate). All fare reasons but considering the entire state is having similar issues at other clubs I think some can be ruled out. My state use to have 120-150 shooters at the state shoot only years ago. This year we had 50 in the 12ga and less in every other gauge. With all this said, when we hold "fun" shoots we get 30-60 shooters. This is far more then any of the registered shoots we use to hold even the ones with added money. Why then can we attract a large crowd with an unregistered shoot? Is it the cheaper fees? I don't know.

The reasons you stated why they should put stock into the large shoots makes sense and I 100% agree. It's the reason I enjoy attending large shoots. I'm not chasing points so for me that's not why I go. Maybe next year that will change and I will chase points.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:42 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:39 pm
Posts: 8075
Location: NC USA
Virtually every shooter does as you say.....starts on a local level. The club where I shot my first tourney plus the clubs that I shot my 2nd and third tourney at NO longer hold registered shoots.

Yes, the Open was full or close to it. But what has happened else where? Of course those that only see the big events, travel extensively with shooting or in the lucky sperm club won't see what's happened to the backbone of the game until its far to late. They can't say they weren't told.

Now comes another angle.......as the game becomes less and less popular whats going to happen to the value of those tube guns,reloading equipment and investments in the game that you have made?

_________________
Skeet aren't hard to hit, just easy to miss....!!

The words of my late best friend, Eye Missum.......I miss him at every skeet shoot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:12 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:54 pm
Posts: 788
Location: Amarillo, Texas
cbxchris wrote:
Virtually every shooter does as you say.....starts on a local level. The club where I shot my first tourney plus the clubs that I shot my 2nd and third tourney at NO longer hold registered shoots.

Yes, the Open was full or close to it. But what has happened else where? Of course those that only see the big events, travel extensively with shooting or in the lucky sperm club won't see what's happened to the backbone of the game until its far to late. They can't say they weren't told.

Now comes another angle.......as the game becomes less and less popular whats going to happen to the value of those tube guns,reloading equipment and investments in the game that you have made?

The game of skeet is not going to go away. I doubt that even as the numbers of registered shooters decline, registered skeet won't either. The shoots will just get smaller. There are still plenty of people out there shooting recreational skeet, they just aren't transitioning over to registered or have grown older and no longer want to record their scores. They still enjoy shooting skeet, just not registered.

So, the secondary market for tubed skeet guns may decline a bit, but people will still shoot with them, regardless. It's a lot of fun shooting skeet with the 28ga and .410.

_________________
Winners focus on winning
Losers focus on winners


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:23 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 147
Snotrub wrote:
So, the secondary market for tubed skeet guns may decline a bit, but people will still shoot with them, regardless. It's a lot of fun shooting skeet with the 28ga and .410.


I agree, also NSCA has subgauge events now which is also accounting for new tube-set sales


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:47 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 3332
schlarmanm1 wrote:
My state use to have 120-150 shooters at the state shoot only years ago. This year we had 50 in the 12ga and less in every other gauge.


That's discouraging. In many states "going to the state shoot" is the primary reason shooters start and stay with registered shooting. A drop in participation like that has to throw a wet blanket on recruitment and retention.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:49 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:25 pm
Posts: 8
Darn guys, you have a great event and it seems like the hot topic is the downfall of Rome. Shouldn't the demise of skeet and tubed shotguns be a different thread.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:39 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 4003
Location: Northern Virginia
lordofbarbeque wrote:
Darn guys, you have a great event and it seems like the hot topic is the downfall of Rome. Shouldn't the demise of skeet and tubed shotguns be a different thread.


BBQ,

This thread is loaded with old curmudgeons who just want to bash skeet every chance they get. They hate. The fact that some guys still enjoy going to the big shoots and competing with the best.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:32 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:41 pm
Posts: 260
Location: Phila, PA
+ 100


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: US Open
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:51 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:41 pm
Posts: 260
Location: Phila, PA
stop wining ............thread is about u s open scores.....enough already ......wtf......Tom sell all your guns and shoot sporting...... ENOUGH...... Tom Johnson.......................




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 2_at_low8, 67galaxie, 737Mech, 98052, Alexa [Bot], B.L.E., Big River, bigeejakes, Bing [Bot], Bladeswitcher, BOB_HARWELL, Bushmaster1313, ccL, cdbeagle, ChrisLunker, CLuttrell, Crossing shot, Cstraight, Curly-Nohair, D McMillen, Dakotashooter3, derbyacresbob, DogTrot, Ekyle, Fitasc2, Geofross, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Heat_PCB, Island Shooter, jackholexxxx, Jcollette, Jnyiri, ksween, la angler, LG66, McFarmer, nwtflogan, ohio mike, OldHick, oneounceload, oregunner, OrsonX, riflegunbuilder, Rooster booster, saskbooknut, se2884, sellersm, SupRdave, The Sequel, Thumper68, tracker 6, Vette Jockey, wbpc, wildlew, wjonessc, Woody, wshumard, ysr_racer


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Carbon Media Group Outdoors    - DMCA Notice