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 Post subject: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Been shooting forever but shot my first round of skeet yesterday...Want to make sure I understand the rules. Is station 8 the only one where the middle stake comes into play...In other words breaking the bird before it gets to the middle...Are all the others fair game until the out of bounds arc around the field...




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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:58 pm 
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Yes, It is a safety issue on 8. If the bird goes by the stake and you follow it then you are turning your gun toward the rest of your squad. Please don't do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:34 pm 
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hrbakerfan2 wrote:
Yes, It is a safety issue on 8. If the bird goes by the stake and you follow it then you are turning your gun toward the rest of your squad. Please don't do that.


I totally agree that you should not do it but, I could easily do so without ever pointing my gun at the rest of the squad and to be honest I do not think I could point my gun at the squad by following the target with a barrel on station 8. If safety was the issue and reason behind shooting the target before the stake, it is a little weak to me. I may be wrong but I feel like the reason has more to do with the challenge of the shot. If I stand on station 8 and facing the middle stake and allow my barrel to follow the target from either house from the window to it's landing on the ground, my barrel followed the same path as on station 4 but with a higher arc. My .02 cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Texbow- Most people could, and most people have the common sense to do the same, but if I were standing behind a shooter who started past the stake following a bird I would get very nervous very quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:20 am 
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Location: Salt Lake. Unless I'm off shooting....
I was shooting with some recreational shooters once. I was tail gunning the squad. We were shooting L8. I have the button and the shooter in front of me calls for the bird. I push the button. Shooter in front of me (I am standing directly behind him) tracks the bird up and over, turning all the way around at the waist, and with the gun pointing right past my head parallel to the ground and only as far away as the flight line of the bird, pulls the trigger. Don't say it don't happen, Texbow. I dropped the button and walked off the field without finishing the box.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:18 am 
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If the remainder of the squad and the referee are all standing where they should be standing while someone else is shooting station 8...the shooter would have to go through some God awful contortions to get his gun pointed at anyone while shooting at the high or low 8 target.

At least in the circles I shoot in anyway. "shrug"


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:42 am 
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Old Vet wrote:
If the remainder of the squad and the referee are all standing where they should be standing while someone else is shooting station 8...the shooter would have to go through some God awful contortions to get his gun pointed at anyone while shooting at the high or low 8 target.

At least in the circles I shoot in anyway. "shrug"


Problem is Old Vet, that you cannot always be sure everybody is just where they should be. You have the non-conformists and the newby's, along with those that just normally stand to the rear of the shooters on station 8. So making sure no-one shoots past the center stake at station 8 is the best rule, and it is a rule. It was placed there for a very good reason. SAFETY !! Just like the rule to load only one shell at station 8 high. People need to practice it instead of trying to rationalize why the rule shouldn't be. It has been proven to be a safety hazard, and so should be enforced.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:23 am 
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MRPOWER wrote:
...........I dropped the button and walked off the field without finishing the box.


Been there done that. Although in the back of my mind the words "butt stroke" are hard to suppress. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:23 am 
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All this conversation would be unneccesary if NSSA would allow station eight to be shot like it is in International Skeet. Everyone on the squad has a place to stand and the referee does not have to manage the cord between the high and low house. It also saves a bit of time in the bargain.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
anyone got a date when one shell in the gun on 8h was started?

and too, can someone post up the EXACT spot the ref MUST stand for 8h and 8L, by the rules?


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:47 pm 
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D. MANDATORY POSITIONS FOR REFEREES
1. For shooting Station 1 (1R), stand six feet to the right and
three (3) feet back of the front of Station 1 where possible.
2. For shooting Station 2 (2R), stand six (6) feet back and three
(3) feet to the right of Station 2.
3. For shooting Stations 3, 4, 5 and 6 (3-4-5-6R), stand six
(6) feet back and three (3) feet to the left of the respective
station.
4. For shooting Station 7 (7R), stand six (6) feet to the left
and three (3) feet back of the front of Station 7 where possible.
5. For shooting Station 8 (8R), stand on center line of the field,
not less than six (6) feet from shooter (and not more than
10 feet).
6. During doubles shooting, as shooters are coming back
around the circle, referees should stand six feet back
and three feet to the right of Stations 5, 4 and 3. (See
diagram on pages 30-31)
Exception: A shooter may request the referee to move
behind the station at Station 3 or 5.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:48 pm 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
thanks, now with that established, wasnt there a time when everyone stood behind the ref facing the shooter? the way i remember it, the ref FACED the shooter, so he could watch the target continue its flight if he missed. why? rules stated that if the target broke in flight before the post marker, its dead. right?
i/e: if you were shooting on a combo field, everyone lined up on station 3 trap, (to protect from the very thing thats being discussed.)

granted, in int.skeet, the bird must break before the edge of the house to be in play. not am.skeet, if im remembering correctly.

all standing on sta 3 trap....i was taught this way long ago. but as time progressed, everyone lined up behind the shooter...causing the safety issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:45 pm 
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During my team training in the Air Force our coach required us to stand behind the shooter as we did on every station other than stations 1 and 7. We were required to mentally break the target shot by every shooter in front of us.

To help visualize what I am saying, when the lead shooter was on station H-8, one could draw a line from the opening of the trap window through the center of station 8 and through the right shoulder of the 4 remaining team members, i.e., "ducks in a row".

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:53 am 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
the majority of us do it that way too.

BUT, the argument is...does it state in the RULES that the target MUST be broken before the 12 o'clock position on sta-8? point is if you miss a bird on 8, you can turn to watch it until it hits the ground at the marker. if it decides to split before hitting the ground, its dead. right?
so, does it state in the RULES that a shooter must shoot at the target BEFORE the center stake>?
if not...then it means the target is free game to be shot at ANYWHERE during the flight path...until it reaches the marker.

and again i say, international rules eliminated this problem by making the playing field the edges of the houses.

if the rule book doesnt explain this, then technically its an unofficial 'habit' rather than an official rule.

so, what we need to see to end the discussion is ....in writing.... rules where it says you 'must', not you 'should.'

time for rule change or update?

youd be surprised how many people do things because the other guys do it....without ever exploring why.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:02 am 
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Quote:
the argument is...does it state in the RULES that the target MUST be broken before the 12 o'clock position on sta-8?


It most certainly does:

Shooting Bounds
For Stations 1 to 7, inclusive, an area forty-four (44) yards
in front of the skeet house from which the target is thrown.
For Station 8, the distance from the skeet house to a point
directly over a line with Station 4, 8 and the target crossing
point.


The rule book is posted on the NSSA site for those with more questions.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:34 am 
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Quote:
So making sure no-one shoots past the center stake at station 8 is the best rule, and it is a rule. It was placed there for a very good reason. SAFETY !!


Oh I agree whole heartedly DLM. And I'm not suggesting for an instant that the rules be changed nor disregarded.

That being said.....I'm just inclined to think there are better places for other squad members to stand when at station 8 than directly behind the shooter....one who may very well be a beginner who in his excitement may try to crank his body all the way around to catch an 8 high or low late..past the stake....thus putting those behind him in a potentially dangerous position.


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:33 pm 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
with a rule in place you have something to enforce. so with a rule in place as to where a target must be shot, standing behind the shooter became the accepted rule among EXPERIENCED shooters... that all had something in common, rules and training.
skeet shooters are much like skydivers, they tend to be very selective as to who they shoot with and prefer to shoot with people all on the same sheet of music for safety. this works fine and dandy with everyone comfortably involved with nssa.
but the safety issue tends to come to light on ranges that embrace casual shooting. if im the puller with a beginner, i always tell the shooter dont swing past 12 oclock and i stand behind them and stop the muzzle if it does. i train them. it works.
but, if im not pulling...i always stand over on sta. 3 trap if i dont know them. dollar to donut, sure enough, someone will swing around. i win. i live. if the whole squad does it, even after i mention it....i just step out next game and squad up with someone else.

just curious...how does nssa measure 44 yds? is it some 6th sense judgement call for ref's to know by instinct? :D or is 44yds to the edge of the house?


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:55 pm 
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44 Yards is not past the face of the house, it is just inside of it. The distance inside is very small but mathematically it is inside. If you see one where the distance marker is beyond the face of the skeet house, then they probably have the baseline distance in error.

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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
so are you saying that in am. skeet, targets must break just prior to the edge of the houses?

curious, without having a boundary judge at each end of the field, (like they do in int. skeet,) how can a ref standing on sta 1 tell 44 yds exact when the target breaks? how can he make the call and not be challenged?

im sure you see my point?

but since the topic is about 8, we can start that in another topic.

and since there is a rule about a target being broken in a certain place on 8, any other argument about turning around is a moot point. do others agree?


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 Post subject: Re: Skeet Rules Question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:38 pm 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
having the rule gives validity to the enforcement. if someone tries to say "why cant i," we as good skeet shooters can say "the rules say so."

this has been a very interesting topic. im glad so many chimed in.

now back to the 44yd rule. baron...does it read the target must be shot at by the mark? or, target must break before the mark?

tell me im not stir crazy, but in all my past ref'ing years, i was always told to look around the house if someone missed if i was on 1 or 7 to watch it land. if it fell apart past the houses edge, it was still considered dead before it hit the ground. is it still that way?




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