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 Post subject: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooters?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:37 pm 
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In LP's doubles video, he displays a practice technique of staggering the release of the pairs. That is, the second bird is delayed by just a little bit to give the shooter a little more time to find the bird. He does this at every station except station 4.

In regards to practicing 3-4-5 doubles, does anyone see a benefit of this technique for a shooter who generally shoots well on these shots?



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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:49 pm 
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I shoot doubles pretty well if I do say so myself, and I still regularly use the following pair exercise that LP showed me. Delaying the second target enforces finding the second target with your eyes before turning the gun around instead of just turning the gun around after the first shot and expecting the second target to be there. I liked the exercise so much that I worked with Bill at ClayDelay to get a skeet autopuller made that could throw following pairs on a skeet field. It's now available for anyone to buy, and allows adjusting the delay between the two targets. ClayDelay calls it the "split double" feature, and it's available on their "Elite" skeet model. You can switch between the delayed pair and regular pairs with one button too, so it's easy to shoot a few following pairs and then switch to regular pairs.


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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:58 pm 
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Thanks Kenny. That Clay Delay model is the exact reason I asked the question.

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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:29 pm 
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Briley now has a Pickle that will do the same delay with a pull cord. It has a switch on the bottom and will delay either side depending on what you are shooting. It will throw regular doubles also.
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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:30 pm 
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Briley now has a Pickle that will do the same delay with a pull cord. It has a switch on the bottom and will delay either side depending on what you are shooting. It will throw regular doubles also.
Billy D


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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:36 pm 
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If you're already using a pickle, why would you need a special one? You can just use the singles buttons to create the delay instead of using the doubles button...


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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:45 pm 
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KennyPowers wrote:
I shoot doubles pretty well if I do say so myself, and I still regularly use the following pair exercise that LP showed me. Delaying the second target enforces finding the second target with your eyes before turning the gun around instead of just turning the gun around after the first shot and expecting the second target to be there. I liked the exercise so much that I worked with Bill at ClayDelay to get a skeet autopuller made that could throw following pairs on a skeet field. It's now available for anyone to buy, and allows adjusting the delay between the two targets. ClayDelay calls it the "split double" feature, and it's available on their "Elite" skeet model. You can switch between the delayed pair and regular pairs with one button too, so it's easy to shoot a few following pairs and then switch to regular pairs.


What an idea. I need to call Clay Delay!!

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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:16 pm 
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Why would you want a special pickle instead of just a regular pickle. Maybe because the special pickle would give you the same timing when you push the button. Consistency is the name of the game in doubles and I for one don't want to be guessing if the guy is pushing the button the same every time. I can't even get my shooting friends to give me the same pull every time with a regular pull cord in regular skeet.
I was just giving some info for people in case they wanted to have an alternative way to practice.
Billy D


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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Buffalo wrote:
Briley now has a Pickle that will do the same delay with a pull cord. It has a switch on the bottom and will delay either side depending on what you are shooting. It will throw regular doubles also.
Billy D


Billy, is that delay adjustable? If I am shooting delayed doubles with an experienced shooter, I might want to give them less delay than I would with a newer shooter, who I am really trying to force to find the second bird.

If the delay is not adjustable, how much delay is it? (1/2 second, 3/4 second? )


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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:24 pm 
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Buffalo wrote:
Why would you want a special pickle instead of just a regular pickle. Maybe because the special pickle would give you the same timing when you push the button. Consistency is the name of the game in doubles and I for one don't want to be guessing if the guy is pushing the button the same every time. I can't even get my shooting friends to give me the same pull every time with a regular pull cord in regular skeet.
I was just giving some info for people in case they wanted to have an alternative way to practice.
Billy D


Realized now you are talking about a different delay than what the OP is talking about. He is talking about delaying the 2nd bird on doubles as a training technique. To break "muscle memory" so to speak.


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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:43 am 
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Couldn't you release the high bird, then release the low bird on a separate button press? Would that set up the delayed release for this purpose? Lot of options there.

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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:25 am 
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labloverva wrote:
Couldn't you release the high bird, then release the low bird on a separate button press? Would that set up the delayed release for this purpose? Lot of options there.

That's exactly what LP did during my clinic...he pretty much just rolled his thumb over the singles buttons. The delay was only a fraction of a second, but it's enough that you will know if you're turning the gun around and then looking for the second target (you'll get caught out way in front) vs seeing it and then letting the gun take care of itself. So ya, if you have someone there to push buttons, then they can simply just use the two singles buttons on any normal remote. In fact, any small inconsistency in the length of the delay due to the human factor is probably beneficial if anything. The whole point of the exercise is to avoid "memorizing" the second target and just expecting it to be somewhere instead of using your eyes. It really reinforces and helps develop a good eye shift in my experience.

However, if you practice alone with an AutoPuller (or use one as a wireless remote for you and your buddies), then you need the new model to be able to delay the second target. The second target's delay is adjustable, and you can even program in 3 different adjustable delays and switch between them with a single button press.

The length of the delay I typically use only moves the crossing point of the targets 5'-8' to either side of the stake. It isn't much at all. You still want it to be similar to a true pair.


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 Post subject: Re: Any benefit in staggered doubles for experienced shooter
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:59 am 
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Paul Sr ( who taught LP ) is the one who designed this Briley pickle and he made the suggestions on delay time. The delay is 2 tenths on the second bird and the pickle can be switched to go either side. There is no adjustment on the delay. But 2 tenths is a long time when you are used to instant. It's a very good tool for the ones that would like to make sure you are switching your eyes and not just finding the bird with the barrel of the gun.
Billy D




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