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 Post subject: NSSA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:59 am 
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I question the need for NSSA, which I am a life member. Count not culbs have tureiments with out them?




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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:30 am 
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Last edited by David McMillen on Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:56 am 
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yoda wrote:
I question the need for NSSA, which I am a life member. Count not culbs have tureiments with out them?
I didn't understand a word he said in that last sentence.

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:06 am 
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Jim Miller wrote:
yoda wrote:
I question the need for NSSA, which I am a life member. Count not culbs have tureiments with out them?
I didn't understand a word he said in that last sentence.

Come on, Jim! Only HALF the words were misspelled.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:48 am 
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The post was by Yoda; young Skywalker, you just need to think about how Yoda would speak. The question will then make perfect sense (oh, and fix a few spelling errors).

So in reply:
Lewis Class scoring clubs could host my thinking is.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:17 pm 
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Sure you could, and many do. How to classify shooters becomes the problem unless you do lewis (sucks) or winner take all (not too popular).

Pretty much the only value NSSA provides it's members is as a records keeping organization, and the primary purpose to that end is to ensure that you do an honest job of maintaining your averages. If everyone could be trusted to maintain accurate records and shoot in the correct class all the time, we really wouldn't need NSSA at all.

You could even hold a shoot, not register it with NSSA, but use everyones NSSA averages for classification, although that excludes those without a NSSA average.

I've also had the thought that if there was a will, individuals could start registering targets with their STATES only, and have the state maintain the averages. If you only register targets within your state, NSSA really isn't providing a function that the state couldn't provide themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
You could even hold a shoot, not register it with NSSA, but use everyones NSSA averages for classification, although that excludes those without a NSSA average.


Why would it? People without NSSA averages shoot in NSSA events every year! There is a method or apparatus in place for that.

Skeet_Man wrote:
I've also had the thought that if there was a will, individuals could start registering targets with their STATES only, and have the state maintain the averages. If you only register targets within your state, NSSA really isn't providing a function that the state couldn't provide themselves.


Im not familiar with this, is this something that actually happens? People register targets with the state? Or states maintain averages? Not in my state.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:05 pm 
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"Why would it? People without NSSA averages shoot in NSSA events every year! There is a method or apparatus in place for that."

I suppose you COULD, in reality you could do anything you wanted in a non-registered setting.

"Im not familiar with this, is this something that actually happens? People register targets with the state? Or states maintain averages? Not in my state. "

Not presently, but I don't see why it couldn't happen. In my state for example there are VERY few people who travel out of state any more, so NSSA is not providing them a service that the state could not, assuming the record-keeping infrastructure were put into place. If there were a mechanism in place, they could simply register the targets with the state, and transfer the records keeping to them. That way the shooters could register targets at a reduced fee and/or see all of their target fee $ redistributed within the state alone instead of being spent in other places. Personally, I believe a vast majority of shooters in my state would be in favor of such a system if it means A. no increase in cost and B. More money back to the shooters who contribute it. I doubt many would be against cutting NSSA loose... My state does pretty well in terms of reinvesting the target fees back to the shooters, they could do even better if their income were tripled...

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:08 pm 
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You could even have a system whereby the state is the primary record keeper, and the only one you need if you don't plan to travel out of state or vie for high average/all american, but if you want to do any of those, you kick in the extra $ to send to NSSA.

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:30 am
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What about the World Championships, Zone shoots, US Open or any large shooting venue. I was asked by a women several months ago if there was any record of her Uncle's shooting accomplishments at the State level. Because he shot from the very late 30's to the early 50's I could only check State Championships from 1950 forward, prior to 1950 was much more difficult and would have required NSSA's help. I called up NSSA and they said, the search would be too intense and time consuming and I completely understood. To dismantle NSSA is to permanently do away with registered skeet shooting. You'll have blowhards claiming averages and accomplishments without the ability to verify. You'll have ringers come into your state and litterly leave with all your money.

Now if NSSA wants to promote skeet shooting they should pick 5 locations to have the world shoot and those clubs should be located (NE) (SE) (WEST) (Mid-West) (San Antonio). Shooters would find going to the world far more interesting rather than going to the same venue over and over again. The idea that our Super Bowl be located in one stadium was the first nail in the coffin.


Last edited by ru31trap on Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
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Jim Miller wrote:
yoda wrote:
I question the need for NSSA, which I am a life member. Count not culbs have tureiments with out them?
I didn't understand a word he said in that last sentence.


I understand exactly what he means and feel the same way. He would rather attend a quality non-registered shoot than an NSSA affiliated event for twice as much. With a non-registered event you get skeet competition without the overhead of all the NSSA t-ball.

I wish there was more non-registered events. It was not long ago that the two biggest skeet shoots in Pennsylvania's Susquehanna Valley were non-registered. Nearly any week of the Central Pennsylvania Skeet League is twice the size of any registered shoot in the same region, e.g. last week with bitter wind chills CPSL had 34 shooters.

Clubs could always offer an NSSA Targets Only as a option at a non-registered shoot for those desiring to registered their targets.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:06 am 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
You could even have a system whereby the state is the primary record keeper, and the only one you need if you don't plan to travel out of state or vie for high average/all american, but if you want to do any of those, you kick in the extra $ to send to NSSA.
A mini NSSA. I like that but see that states looking at that as a way to up their coffers. But someone would have to be paid to maintain those records. That means money would have to be added to the price of the targets. Aren't we right back to where we started?

Fun, local shoots are always a possibility whether we have NSSA or not. We used to have a non-registered lobster shoot for our locals. It was fun, good eats and some gag prizes. Good time.

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:17 am 
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The non registered shoots in PA sound like fun. Keeping average records in PA? Not so much.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Jim Miller wrote:
That means money would have to be added to the price of the targets. Aren't we right back to where we started?


Maybe, maybe not.

You wouldn't have to pay 4 bucks per hundred to NSSA, or an annual membership fee. The same service can be done at the state level for the same $ or less, I don't believe such a system would add a penny to the overall cost, but it would/could at least represent being able to return a much larger portion of the funds directly to those who contribute it.

I don't think it would be hard to find someone willing to keep track of shooters averages within the state for less than 4 bucks a hundred, you could likely find someone to do it for a buck or two per event (I would be willing to for NYS if it ever became a viable option). So you either keep the fees the same and the state increases their revenues 100-150% to be returned to the shooters (in NYS, a majority of the money the state collects goes back into funds for the state shoot, which a majority of the active shooters in the state attend), or you cut the fees for shooters and the state maintains current income.

I had another interesting thought. I wonder if NSSA keeps track of the money collected by state (probably) and if they keep track of the money distributed by state (maybe not). It'd be interesting to see what the shooters receive as far as ROI (although it may be difficult to quantify some stuff). I have a feeling that one or two states do AWESOME, and the other 48 get less back from the association than they put in.

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:17 pm 
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Jim Miller wrote:
Skeet_Man wrote:
You could even have a system whereby the state is the primary record keeper, and the only one you need if you don't plan to travel out of state or vie for high average/all american, but if you want to do any of those, you kick in the extra $ to send to NSSA.
A mini NSSA. I like that but see that states looking at that as a way to up their coffers. But someone would have to be paid to maintain those records. That means money would have to be added to the price of the targets. Aren't we right back to where we started?

Fun, local shoots are always a possibility whether we have NSSA or not. We used to have a non-registered lobster shoot for our locals. It was fun, good eats and some gag prizes. Good time.



I must ask again, WHY DOES it cost 4 cents a target to keep score? PLUS state fees. Think about that. Its ludicrous. Our ref fees are killing us as well. We have been down this road many times and have been shown what other organizations charge to keep scores.

Not wasting my time on another why in the hell are we so dumb yet continue.

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
How to classify shooters becomes the problem


It's never been a problem at the non-registered shoots I attend.


Last edited by ShowMe on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
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one does have to question the amount of overhead in the NSSA. Does the ATA have any where near as much overhead. As soon as we start to complain about overhead, the first thing we must look at is the NSC. Do we need it?

Only if you think the World shoot has to accommodate anyone who wants to come! I personally don't. But then, I've been involved in many other sports which had qualifiers to compete in the finals. I'd be fine with that. From the suggestion above, of having 4 sites for the world shoot, perhaps they could be the semi-finals. And after those, X number of shooters go to the World.

But too many people would complain that they don't have the opportunity to go to the world.....and yet they are the same ones complaining about NSSA fees! It's a self-licking ice cream cone!!


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:29 pm 
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I actually shoot better in a structured, controlled environment, something that the local "Fun" shots I have attended do not do. I have been a member of the NSSA for over 45 years and don't mind the fees that they charge. There are still plenty of Target only registered shoots around too and for those of us that live close to a state line, shooting in multiple states is something that I have been doing for years. Though you can start shooting registered without a set classification, it can be a handicap. Nice to have refs that are also at least trained to some extend in the rules of the game.

Guess it could be like the USGA where your home club keeps your handicap up, but I am OK with it the way it is.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:35 pm 
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I can't see why NSSA fees cannot be charged once per day, that is to say any shooter that shoots 100 or more on the same day be charged one NSSA fee only, I think charging shooters NSSA fees for each and every 50 or 100 targets is wrong, some of us in England shoot 3 or 400 hundred per day and then have to pay 3 or 4 times NSSA fees.

On a side note our targets here in England without the NSSA fees at most grounds are between £26.00 - £30.00 per 100 that is currently $32 - $37 at todays £ - $ rates.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:08 am 
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100topshot wrote:
I can't see why NSSA fees cannot be charged once per day, that is to say any shooter that shoots 100 or more on the same day be charged one NSSA fee only,


It was once upon a time, which is why they are, now erroneously, called "daily fees". ATA still charges a daily fee, same whether you shoot 50 or 500 in a day.

With the integration of technology, we should be seeing a REDUCTION in fees, not an increase. If what I've been told holds true, at least NSSA is no longer hand-keying shoot scores anymore (not long ago even if scores were submitted electronically they were still being hand-keyed into the system), so there should be much less to no manual labor involved in tabulating scores.

According to the PTBs, NSC and the magazine are both self funding so the only thing a majority of members are getting for their membership cost and target fees is the tabulation of their scores.



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