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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:14 pm 
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According to the web site, worldwide shipping is free.

Jim




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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:48 pm 
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cheecho1960 wrote:
Just great. Now that I accumulated all the Mullers I need............along come these !....... :lol:

I guess I don't need to worry about them, none listed for a Zoli :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:14 am 
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KRIEGHOFFK80 wrote:
What will these chokes do for my shooting?

How do your sizes compare to other chokes?

With all the stuff going on inside your choke will it slow the shot down?

Thanks for the help.

Dear KRIEGHOFFK80

Answering to your questions, I would like to inform you the followings:

1) “What will these chokes do for my shooting?”

A lot, but the most important thing is that they will allow you bigger aiming error due to increased by 80 % effective surface of the pattern.

2) “How do your sizes compare to other chokes?”

They don’t! With conventional chokes the choke degree is the diameter difference between the bore of the barrel and the muzzle. With BRAIN Chokes it is the difference between its own first constriction and the second one! This way they also eliminate the differences of bore diameters between barrels of the same make (model / manufacturer), since the Pre-Choking section constitutes a new entrance to the final choking, forming its own accurate “bore to choke” relevance.
Besides, BRAIN Chokes offer greatly extended effective range , both closer and longer, compared to any other conventional choke tube of equivalent choke constriction. The only similarity is the measure of the exit diameter.

3) With all the stuff going on inside your choke will it slow the shot down?

On the contrary, due to the double Venturi effect, it increases the shot velocity by an average of 2%. Of course, allow me to add here that, according to our oppinion, this fact is not of significant ameliorative importance.

All the above and much more info you can find on our site at TECHNOLOGY/ UNIQUE ADVANTAGES.

If you have any other questions, I will be happy to answer.

Christos
BRAIN Chokes


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:21 am 
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ceh383 wrote:
cheecho1960 wrote:
Just great. Now that I accumulated all the Mullers I need............along come these !....... :lol:

I guess I don't need to worry about them, none listed for a Zoli :lol:

Dear ceh383

In few weeks...start worrying!
Free tip: don't buy any new stock during the next five months! (Our name stands for Ballistic RAdical INnovations (plural!) )

Christos
BRAIN Chokes


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:25 am 
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jrmev wrote:
According to the web site, worldwide shipping is free.

Jim

Correct. And we mean it!

Christos
BRAIN Chokes


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:46 am 
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Jmo, but I think this is sound technology and innovation and can see how it would possibly work. If these do work as advertised, all other choke tubes are using old and obsolete technology.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:20 am 
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DBrevit wrote:
88 Euro each , don't know about shipping. That's more than Muller's and most all factory.

Dear DBrevit,

The BRAIN Chokes price, 88 euros or 94 $ is relevant to two factors:
1) cost of embodied quality (workmanship / materials) and
2) how many times they will multiply the final outcome of your whole relevant investment (guns, shells, trips etc). You may have spent a huge amount on all these and the results you receive to be poor due to lesser effectiveness / quality choke tubes.

As for the quality, let me say only that the steel we use is the best Swedish stainless steel, the hardest (50 Rockwell C scale) used for choke tubes all over the world, perfectly homogenised with far superior properties for extreme temperatures or long term stress, nothing to compare with the usually used 17-4PH. We buy our raw material bars at the price some brands sell retail! Then we are the only ones who subject our chokes to Thermal Stress Relief resulting to perfect interaction with the load passing through and avoidance of future dimensional alterations (oval perimeter shape etc).
And then we have the ceramic finish, the hand polishing of the interior etc. See our site TECHNOLOGY / SUPERIOR MANUFACTURING.

As for the effectiveness, just think of a choke that will increase impressively your shots-to-kills ratio. Would you sacrifice better results for some (justified!) extra bucks?

At the end, please let me ask you, in order to form the real final prices of all other chokes, to add the shipping cost, which is free in our case!

Christos
BRAIN Chokes


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:41 pm 
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If a shooter in a traditional choke designation shoots mostly Mod or .020 constriction for sporting clays, what would be the recommended Brain choke for this shooter?

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Removed


Last edited by DBrevit on Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:49 pm 
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Quote:
Christos
BRAIN Chokes


Hello Christos,

Your website proclaims
Quote:
"Are the only choke tubes in the World that can be used with steel shot regardless the choke degree including our BX (Beyond Exteme) of 14/10 / 0,056” constriction which is the tightest choke currently produced in the World, even with Magnum Steel BB's, yet delivering absolutely perfect patterns."


You might want to reconsider your claims. Surely you must know that .056 inch is not the "the tightest choke currently produced in the World," not even close. Trulock has made .080 inch constriction chokes as a stock item for a very long time: https://trulockchokes.com/?target=choke ... gory_id=11 .

Nor are your chokes the "only" chokes in the world that can be used with steel regardless of choke degree. Fabarm factory choke tubes, supplied with the shotguns, have been that way for many years: http://www.fabarm.com/web_eng/caratteri ... io.asp?i=1 .

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:45 am 
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DBrevit wrote:
GoldenEagle wrote:
Jmo, but I think this is sound technology and innovation and can see how it would possibly work. If these do work as advertised, all other choke tubes are using old and obsolete technology.



Snake oil, new fishing wiggle worm, I see no reason this design would improve a shot pattern, expansion chamber is redundant, tube wall thickness (think about it) , shot is in a plastic wad/cup and is set back as it's being driven down the barrel, etc, etc . But as you say JMO.

Dear DBrevit,

I do like people who do not take everything for granted and I really appreciate the dialogue, but, if you want to find out how this design would improve a shot pattern, trying to think of a reason could be rather ineffective, the only sure way is to actually experiment and test it.

Now, even by logical procedure, let me point out the followings:
1) “expansion chamber is redundant”
I wonder, how did you reach to that aphoristic conclusion? Expansion chambers are used in noumerous applications serving special purposes, obeying to certain physics theory rules, not to some designer’s caprice.
2) “tube wall thickness (think about it)”
Correct observation! But we have thought about it in advance on behalf of our clients. First of all, the small parallel section in our design before the expansion chamber eliminates any possibility of forming a bulge ring by taking all the stress and additionally to that, the steel we use is the hardest of all by far (50 at Rockwell C scale). That’s how we can emphasize that we give Life Time Warranty to all our chokes.
3) “shot is in a plastic wad/cup......”
According to this scepticism, the shot load wouldn't also be affected by exit choke as well. The wads are very malleable and consequently, all bore alterations are “felt” by the shot.load.

Now allow also me to say "JMO" but here, the “O” doesn’t stand for “Oppinion” but for “Observations”.

If you have more questions, I will be happy to answer

Christos
BRAIN Chokes


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:13 am 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
Quote:
Christos
BRAIN Chokes


Hello Christos,

Your website proclaims
Quote:
"Are the only choke tubes in the World that can be used with steel shot regardless the choke degree including our BX (Beyond Exteme) of 14/10 / 0,056” constriction which is the tightest choke currently produced in the World, even with Magnum Steel BB's, yet delivering absolutely perfect patterns."


You might want to reconsider your claims. Surely you must know that .056 inch is not the "the tightest choke currently produced in the World," not even close. Trulock has made .080 inch constriction chokes as a stock item for a very long time: https://trulockchokes.com/?target=choke ... gory_id=11 .

Nor are your chokes the "only" chokes in the world that can be used with steel regardless of choke degree. Fabarm factory choke tubes, supplied with the shotguns, have been that way for many years: http://www.fabarm.com/web_eng/caratteri ... io.asp?i=1 .

Dear Randy,

Thank you for the remark but, both parts of my claims sentence are connected to a condition at the end of it: "yet delivering absolutely perfect patterns" ... which for us is the pattern with increased effective surface of uniform distribution, as described all over our website.

Of course I know the constrictions of Mr Ceorge Trulock (whom I greatly esteem since he is one of the very few serious manufacturers in the choke tubes industry who strive many years for innovation and evolution, many others are just "hole openers" counting on marketing hypes). I am sure you understand that someone could easily go to .090 "or even tighter just to claim a new record but, as Mr Trulock stopped to .085" (even tighter than .080 "), obviously because he did not get the results he expected with tighter constrictions, for the same reason we stopped to .056 ". Beyond that constriction, the patterns were not as perfect as we wanted, started forming dense cores etc. Of course, due to this perfect uniformity, BRAIN .056 "pattern are effective at much longer distance than someone would expect, as named, this choke goes Beyond Extreme.

Now, conserning Fabarm (which I represented exclusively along with Guerini and Perazzi for many years in my country during 90's and '00s), these chokes are designed with a radius at the exit by the team of Fabarm chief engineer, my friend Piero Torosani and I know them very well but, again, they produce conventional patterns with dense cores etc., nothing to compare with BRAIN patterns, again, they don't fulfill the condition.

Really happy to communicate with you and thanks for the "like" to BRAIN F/b page!

Christos
BRAIN Chokes


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:44 am 
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dpe2002 wrote:
If a shooter in a traditional choke designation shoots mostly Mod or .020 constriction for sporting clays, what would be the recommended Brain choke for this shooter?


I'd like an answer to this question as well. {hs#

I'll even add some data -- at 30 meters distance, my Mod puts an average of 92% of the pellets inside a 30" (76 cm) circle. So what choke would I buy if I wanted a majority of my pellets inside a 76 cm circle at 30 meters? What choke if I wanted that same performance at 20 meters? And then at 40?

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:57 am 
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dpe2002 wrote:
If a shooter in a traditional choke designation shoots mostly Mod or .020 constriction for sporting clays, what would be the recommended Brain choke for this shooter?

Dear dpe2002,

The conventional choke tubes deliver their optimum performance within 8 yrds per choke degree, with dense core etc.

BRAIN Chokes perform perfectly within a range of approx 17 yrds per degree, always with uniform distribution and increased effective pattern surface by at least 80%

Therefore, both C3 and C4 will serve you, having you covered at a much wider distance spectrum than the normal .020”.

If the layout design is “tight” with rather close range targets I will use the C3 which is ideal for shots at 18 – 35 yrds, if it is more “wide”, I will go for the C4 for shotds at 23 – 40 yrds.

Be sure that, with any of them, your kill /shot ratio will be improved!


I hope this answers to your question.

Christos
BRAIN Chokes


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:52 pm
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Thank you for supporting Shotgun World with your sponsorship. It sounds like you have put a large amount of engineering and thought into your product, and wish you the best of luck with your new venture.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:40 am 
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JacksBack wrote:
dpe2002 wrote:
If a shooter in a traditional choke designation shoots mostly Mod or .020 constriction for sporting clays, what would be the recommended Brain choke for this shooter?


I'd like an answer to this question as well. {hs#

I'll even add some data -- at 30 meters distance, my Mod puts an average of 92% of the pellets inside a 30" (76 cm) circle. So what choke would I buy if I wanted a majority of my pellets inside a 76 cm circle at 30 meters? What choke if I wanted that same performance at 20 meters? And then at 40?

Thanks!

Dear Jack,

I just answered to dpe2002, please find the post.

Now, your way of thinking about percentages at given distances is the correct one but goes only for conventional chokes.

In the case of BRAIN Chokes you have to approach things using a whole new perspective.

You see, when you say that e.g. your Mod puts an average of 92% of the pellets inside a 30" (76 cm) circle at 30 meters distance, you talk about a pattern with approx 34” (90 cm) total diameter but of which only a central circle of just 22“ (55 cm) has (although in useless excess) the necessary density to guarantee success, with the rest of the pattern surface (much bigger than the central) unable to secure a break.
With a C4 BRAIN choke, the total pattern diameter / surface will be the same but the effective surface will be almost double, forming a 28” (72 cm) diameter.circle.

This also explains how every BRAIN Choke degree beats, in addition to the conventional of equivalent degree, plus one wider and one tighter than that!
You see, the effective pattern surface of the BRAIN Choke is bigger than the effective pattern surfaces of both conventional ones, wider and tighter, for the biggest part of their intended distances. Practically, this means that you will need fewer choke tubes to cover your full shot distance spectrum. Eventually, less guesswork about which choke suits best the occassion!

I will be glad to answer to any question you may want to ask.

Christos
BRAIN Chokes


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Terrapin wrote:
Thank you for supporting Shotgun World with your sponsorship. It sounds like you have put a large amount of engineering and thought into your product, and wish you the best of luck with your new venture.

Dear Terrapin,

I would like to warmly thank you for both, comment and wishes.

Best regards

Christos
BRAIN Chokes


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:32 pm 
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Your chokes maybe made exactly as you claim, with the materials you claim, however your choke tube cannot change aerodynamics nor how round the pellets are when they get to the choke.

Patterns do not and cannot develop the way you claim, unless you can change the laws of physics and aerodynamics. Any choke that pushes pellets from the core of the pattern to the annullar ring will render the pattern ineffective sooner than a choke that allows the pellets to stay in that core. We already have chokes like that they are called, cylinder bore, skeet and improved cylinder.

Maybe you do make some excellent chokes, but they aren't going to buy anyone any targets with some sort of magical dispersion of the shot swarm once it hits the atmosphere.

Undoubtedly you have done many pattern tests. Would you please post some of those patterns, with ranges, payload pellet counts and degree of constriction?

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Terrapin wrote:
Thank you for supporting Shotgun World with your sponsorship. It sounds like you have put a large amount of engineering and thought into your product, and wish you the best of luck with your new venture.

I agree with this.

dogchaser37 wrote:
Undoubtedly you have done many pattern tests. Would you please post some of those patterns, with ranges, payload pellet counts and degree of constriction?

I also agree with this. Christos you have to understand that U.S. clay shooters have for years been bombarded with claims from choke manufacturers regarding materials, design, and above all performance. Every single choke now made has the best materials, a proprietary design, and "geometry" that ensures better patterns. All of them will instantly give the shooter more Xs on his scorecard.
Many of us aren't buying it anymore without some empirical evidence. I'd like to see pattern tests of your chokes and some others using the same shell and gun, preferably done by an independent third party. Given that important variables like guns and shells can't all be tested there would still be room for doubt, but a credible pattern comparison would go a long way toward proving your claims.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgunworld welcomes Brain Chokes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Appears to be a Hybrid Tula/Jug/Cutts Compensator?

Thanks for being a SHOTGUN WORLD sponsor. Best wishes on you new venture! Ya Mas!



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Last edited by Docterduck on Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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