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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:58 pm 
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Couldn't have said that better myself Jack.




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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:12 pm 
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dpe2002 wrote:
Rooster booster wrote:
I think some are concerned feelings will be hurt, did some would quit.....


without a doubt this is a legit concern for NSCA and they are trying a diffrent angle hoping more will let the system work without making it manditory. No question at all in my mind that some would walk before being forced to move down a class....not sure the number....... 5-10% probably.
That seems to de-legitimize master class.

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Jim, that's not accurate. If the system is flawed (I'm not saying it is), then all classes are affected.

It's still just a hobby, a wonderful one, but other than the top three, usually only HOA, does anything else really matter?


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:21 am 
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Hey, save time. money and shells. Declare AA- go to a state, regional or open without the minimum number of targets-win AA. BAM!! You're now a master class shooter! Go for it- It's great! I think we should just have AA and master class. Let's give everybody what they want. You don't need to practice (Sera) or shoot all those annoying local shoots with no punches.


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:32 am 
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Jim Miller wrote:
dpe2002 wrote:
Rooster booster wrote:
I think some are concerned feelings will be hurt, did some would quit.....


without a doubt this is a legit concern for NSCA and they are trying a diffrent angle hoping more will let the system work without making it manditory. No question at all in my mind that some would walk before being forced to move down a class....not sure the number....... 5-10% probably.
That seems to de-legitimize master class.


Not at all....this isn't about master class. Year end review and down classing whether manditory or not applies to the entire structure except E. Anything can be spun into a problem or something that its not.

Back to the OP, this simply sounds like a small monthly event at a smaller venue and often secondary events have smaller participation. It is what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:18 am 
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"dpe" is right; the issue isn't Master or any other single class. Structurally the punch system is hopelessly inadequate as a classification tool; no amount of tweaking will change that. So, "hopper" has presented the best solution: Go out and shoot as well as you can. Don't worry about punches or classes. Enjoy the day.


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:22 am 
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Ok. I will amend my statement. These issues seem to de-legitimize the current class system. Even though it seems to be the master class, with lifetime membership, that is diluted the most with shooters that no longer belong there due to their lack of shooting ability. Some of which I know can barely shoot a B class score anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:31 am 
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No one ever asked me but then, we offered Hunter class at Deer Creek

BTW whatever happened to just enjoying the fun of shooting, after you all cannot eat or spend a punch?

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:33 am 
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Roger Gascoigne wrote:
BTW whatever happened to just enjoying the fun of shooting, after you all cannot eat or spend a punch?
DING, DING, DING! We have a winner!

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:48 am 
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Jim Miller wrote:
Roger Gascoigne wrote:
BTW whatever happened to just enjoying the fun of shooting, after you all cannot eat or spend a punch?
DING, DING, DING! We have a winner!


i am comfortable saying that the vast majority of shooters do this entirely for the fun of it. For them, whether its just casual targets or competition targets under the punch system its all good and no drama.

There is a vocal few that don't feel this way but that is how it goes in many things in life. As has been said, the punch system is not perfect but any proposed alternate will not be perfect either.

shooting is a hobby...a diversion...an activity so yes, it should be enjoyable. otherwise it could become very expensive misery. Lifes too short for that.

keep it fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:41 am 
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Jim: Trolling about M class. Seriously , enough , dude. :roll: Sign up , enter, have your name posted next to an E class score. Oh , never-mind, that'd take some intestinal fortitude, right???

To the OP : How arrogant are you? Do you seriously think [1] you'd have won B class if there were other actual shooters in that class [2] do you really think "you won" B class when you were the only one in it [3] we should change the rules so you can win every time.

Please tell us what other rules we should change for your benefit????

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:24 am 
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As to the OP suggestion combining classes if not enough in class to get a punch, how would that work.

Example 2 shooters in every class MM-E go to a shoot, so no class has enough shooters to get a punch.

What classes get combined? AA can only get combined with M, but A could get combined with AA or B, and the same goes for every class.

Just wondering in the real world how the class combo would work.

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:27 am 
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Jim: I'm so old that when I started no one got punches unless there was 100 shooters at the shoot. I (we) never thought about punches b/c it was rare that there'd be 100 shooters in our small state. PLUS we didn't get the scores for a couple of weeks after the shoot. No instant gratification back then.

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:32 am 
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sera wrote:
Jim: Trolling about M class. Seriously , enough , dude. :roll: Sign up , enter, have your name posted next to an E class score. Oh , never-mind, that'd take some intestinal fortitude, right???
Tell what I said about master class that is incorrect, Sera. Can you do that?

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:58 am 
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Constantly posting on M class makes it trolling....so don't protest

or



you could sign up and compete. Shoot for HOA.

Sad that our game needs participation trophies for most to come compete. I came from pigeon races to SC's. In pigeons there are no classes and you are required to bet on yourself...no guts no glory. All of SC's is a baby game compared to pigeons.

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Our prentice Tom may now refuse
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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:57 am
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Mo Jaybird wrote:
I'd recommend if there are two or less shooters in a class that they be combined with the classes above. Similar to NRA shiliouette matches that I used to shoot.

I think this is a reasonable suggestion. It provides a way for people in classes where less than three show up to be rewarded for their performance if they shoot a score good enough to punch in the class above theirs.

That is the farthest thing from a "participation trophy" and commonly done in other shooting sports (as the OP points out).


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:09 am 
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Ok, Sera, I didn't think you could. As long as I am a Life Member of NSSA/NSCA I will continue to post my opinion on the subject on a DISCUSSION forum as I choose.

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:19 am 
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IMHO, not a good idea to move people up into the next higher class when they shoot a higher score than the class above them and their class is short of shooters. What if the other guy in your class does not want to be put in the class above them? What if the guy in the above class will lose out on a punch? When would it be decided to move your score into the next higher class, before or after you start shooting? Right now, you cannot change classes during a shoot.
It's disappointing to have too few in your class to earn a punch, but moving shooters up in class either by a new rule or by shooters choice is not a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:33 am 
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sera wrote:
Jim: I'm so old that when I started no one got punches unless there was 100 shooters at the shoot. I (we) never thought about punches b/c it was rare that there'd be 100 shooters in our small state. PLUS we didn't get the scores for a couple of weeks after the shoot. No instant gratification back then.


When I started shooting this, punches hadn't been "invented" yet..........neither had classes - you showed up, did your best and saw where you wound up. The clubs did do a Lewis class so some money got spread around....that was it.....

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough shooters in second 100 registered course
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:47 am 
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One more thread proving that we need a new class...." where I can win w/o practice or competition."

Jeez Louise. :roll:



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