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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Location: Central NH
drawdc wrote:
What if someone asked a choke question and no one answered?

Pretty much the same as when they get answers.

They'll do whatever they want.




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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:08 pm 
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I cannot specifically recall ever using C/IC, but if I did, I would have had a good reason.

End of day, they're all good (chokes that is). And when you're on, choke doesn't matter very much... And when you're not on, choke doesn't help very much...

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Human ego will naturally resist change, yet change is the fuel that powers progress...


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:58 pm
Posts: 1140
Lets see what the pattern board can tell us about choke performance, in my gun/chokes anyway!

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

30 YARDS / CYL
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 218 (55%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 194 (56%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 202 (54%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 202 (54%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 238 (58%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 239 (57%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 56%

30 YARDS / SK
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 256 (65%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 248 (72%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 253 (67%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 220 (59%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 290 (71%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 279 (66%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 67%

30 YARDS / IC
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 305 (78%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 288 (84%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 324 (86%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 278 (74%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 328 (80%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 328 (78%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 80%

40 YARDS / LM
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 251 (64%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 260 (76%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 264 (70%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 216 (58%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 277 (68%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 267 (64%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 67%

40 YARDS / M
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 292 (74%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 272 (79%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 285 (76%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 236 (63%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 293 (72%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 302 (72%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 73%

Hope this helps, good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:36 am 
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C/IC is the lazy man's way of picking up a few CLOSE targets he's not otherwise good enough to hit.

And giving up a whole lot of farther targets due to holes in the pattern.

Spend time learning to shoot and not relying on spray and pray.

_________________
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Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:20 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:27 pm
Posts: 26
Thanks for all the responses.

I am going to go with IC and M. Once I get on the course and see what it's like, I'll have a better idea what will work best for me.

I agree with the suggestions regarding lessons - will check that out as well.

From the videos I have watched, SC looks to be more challenging than shooting Quail over dogs. I never found that to be too difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:33 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:27 pm
Posts: 26
Thanks for sharing - IC at 80% is impressive. I see why some have recommended to go with two IC chokes.

Joe Hunter wrote:
Lets see what the pattern board can tell us about choke performance, in my gun/chokes anyway!

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

30 YARDS / CYL
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 218 (55%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 194 (56%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 202 (54%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 202 (54%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 238 (58%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 239 (57%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 56%

30 YARDS / SK
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 256 (65%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 248 (72%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 253 (67%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 220 (59%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 290 (71%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 279 (66%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 67%

30 YARDS / IC
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 305 (78%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 288 (84%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 324 (86%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 278 (74%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 328 (80%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 328 (78%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 80%

40 YARDS / LM
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 251 (64%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 260 (76%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 264 (70%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 216 (58%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 277 (68%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 267 (64%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 67%

40 YARDS / M
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #8 lead (393 pellets) / pattern 292 (74%)
Win AA Extra-Lite 2 ¾” 1 oz #7 ½ lead (344 pellets) / pattern 272 (79%)
Win AA Heavy 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (377 pellets) / pattern 285 (76%)
Rem Gun Club 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (375 pellets) / pattern 236 (63%)
Rem Premier STS 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (408 pellets) / pattern 293 (72%)
Rem Premier Nitro 2 ¾” 1 1/8 oz #7 ½ lead (420 pellets) / pattern 302 (72%)
Average pattern percentage of all loads / 73%

Hope this helps, good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:57 am
Posts: 382
sera wrote:
C/IC is the lazy man's way of picking up a few CLOSE targets he's not otherwise good enough to hit.

And giving up a whole lot of farther targets due to holes in the pattern.

Spend time learning to shoot and not relying on spray and pray.

I'm all about getting better. But in a tournament I will switch from my normal LM/IM to either C/LM or C/IM if one of the two targets is inside 20 yards.

That's just playing smart.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:43 am 
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No one gets better shooting spray and pray. No "top" shooter tries this. Most often they have more than enough choke and shoot just fine.

For me on close (fast) window shots , I use a spreader. I hate fooling around w/ chokes.

If you want to be the 13th best in C class , shoot Ic/Ic.

_________________
Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:57 am
Posts: 382
sera wrote:
No one gets better shooting spray and pray. No "top" shooter tries this. Most often they have more than enough choke and shoot just fine.

For me on close (fast) window shots , I use a spreader. I hate fooling around w/ chokes.

If you want to be the 13th best in C class , shoot Ic/Ic.

I feel we're talking past each other, sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:21 pm 
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If there is one thing I have learned from top shooters in our game (Gebben Miles, Dan Carlisle, Ray Brown, etc.), it's that shooters very rarely miss because of choke selection as oppose to other factors such as bad move, bad hold point, bad eye work, wrong shooting method, etc. Nearly all of them suggested chokes M or tighter because these tighter constrictions will produce a longer, more dense shot string with less flyers. Following their advice, I switched to M/M for everything about a year ago and my scores and confidence have gone up. So, if you want to shoot for fun, choke selection is not important. But, if you want to progress and become a better shooter, I would also suggest to use M or tighter, perhaps with some spreaders for a super close targets as sera said, and work on perfecting your technique.

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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:28 pm 
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mortum wrote:
Nearly all of them suggested chokes M or tighter because these tighter constrictions will produce a longer, more dense shot string with less flyers. Following their advice, I switched to M/M for everything about a year ago and my scores and confidence have gone up.


^^^^ {hs# Put a Mod in and learn to shoot,a wise man told me that several years ago :wink: still holds true :)

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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:33 am
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Gebben Miles suggests IC for new shooters in his first video. Both Wendell Cherry and Bill Mcguire say they often use light modified in tournaments. Anthony Matareese suggests IC for new shooters. Do they qualify as "top shooters"?
A new shooter most of all needs to hit some targets. When the shooter is hitting something like 3/4s of the targets it is time to tighten up chokes, perhaps.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:27 pm
Posts: 26
I am looking forward to the day I am using M/M - for now, I believe I will start with IC in the first barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:59 pm 
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mars: Wendell uses a fixed choked Perazzi choked 25 and 32. I've shot w/ Bill and never seen him use a Lt Mod. Though he does shoot a choke tubed Blaser.

Lt mod is a great choke but Mod is better.

_________________
Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:06 pm 
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marsingbob wrote:
Gebben Miles suggests IC for new shooters in his first video. Both Wendell Cherry and Bill Mcguire say they often use light modified in tournaments. Anthony Matareese suggests IC for new shooters. Do they qualify as "top shooters"? A new shooter most of all needs to hit some targets. When the shooter is hitting something like 3/4s of the targets it is time to tighten up chokes, perhaps.
...and I don't disagree with any of that, I was just commenting on my own experience. Also, according to this http://shootingsportsman.com/seven-guns ... en-makers/ Wendell shoots a fixed choke gun .26/.32 - hardly LM.

Double00 wrote:
I am looking forward to the day I am using M/M...
Try it, you might be pleasantly surprised :)

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ProShooterGear | Extreme Chokes
www.proshootergear.com
www.extremechokes.net


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Sometimes I wish Jimmy had a Muller U2.5.

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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:55 pm 
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KRIEGHOFFK80 wrote:
Sometimes I wish Jimmy had a Muller U2.5.


I asked him multiple times to make me one in the past, but in the end all he did was laugh at me telling me I didn't need it. :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Human ego will naturally resist change, yet change is the fuel that powers progress...


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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Quote:
Put a Mod in and learn to shoot,


Why not cover every distance and just put in 2 Fulls then and REALLY learn to shoot. Good enough for King George (on most presentations)

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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:07 pm 
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That is one of the reason I am looking at the New Brain chokes. I like their spacing better.

On most sporting clay course the U3 is to tight.

Before someone jumps on me this is only an opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Cyl/IC
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:09 pm
Posts: 150
oneounceload wrote:
Quote:
Put a Mod in and learn to shoot,


Why not cover every distance and just put in 2 Fulls then and REALLY learn to shoot. Good enough for King George (on most presentations)


I did this edit: (using F/F)and it really helped my game. Lots of pain early on but now using M/M and doing well for my ability. I am not, nor do I aspire to be, a pofessional shooter but learning and bleeding on tight chokes made me learn the fundamentals. Only to learn choke isn't really important as long as you have enough.




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