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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:50 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:14 pm
Posts: 2418
By god, you must be worked up! Three responses to the same post! You're putting me in my place for sure.

You're still wrong. You have no RIGHT to shoot FITASC. By paying you're money you're entering into a contract with the gun club and sanctioning body/bodies to follow the rules. I mean, why not just shoot high gun with 1-1/4 oz. loads, then?




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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:52 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 2254
oneounceload wrote:
Quote:
Not allowing pumpguns serves no purpose at all. It flies in the face of our own gun rights.


Not being allowed to carry in government buildings or within 1500' of a school is an infringement. Not allowing you to use something to play a game is not.


Disagree with that second statement.

So, tell me oneounce, as a FITASC ref, are you going to tell some young kid, who only owns a pumpgun, that he can't shoot in your event with it?

Enquiring minds want to know where you stand on this.......


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:56 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 1431
That's exactly what I would tell him, while trying to get a gun is his hands in order for him to shoot.

I love pump guns, but rules are rules, and you should learn them before plunking down your $$$ to enter such an event.


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:58 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 2254
bopper wrote:
By god, you must be worked up! Three responses to the same post! You're putting me in my place for sure.

You're still wrong. You have no RIGHT to shoot FITASC. By paying you're money you're entering into a contract with the gun club and sanctioning body/bodies to follow the rules. I mean, why not just shoot high gun with 1-1/4 oz. loads, then?


No, I'm not wrong. You are.

Not shooting high gun and not using 1-1/4 oz. loads (which at one time was legal) are a good thing. Tell me ONE good thing about not allowing pumpguns for FITASC in the US?


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:01 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 2254
Rooster booster wrote:
That's exactly what I would tell him, while trying to get a gun is his hands in order for him to shoot.

I love pump guns, but rules are rules, and you should learn them before plunking down your $$$ to enter such an event.



It's a rule that doesn't have any meaningful application in the United States, and needs to be changed. We changed the rule that allowed 1-1/4 ounce loads, we can change this one. And for good reasons.

Tell me, exactly what problem a pumpgun causes that say a semi-auto doesn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:04 am 
*Proud to be a*
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mule: Save yourself a lot of heart-ache and don't shoot Fitasc.

The rules are the rules and just b/c you don't like them , doesn't mean anyone is infringing your rights. Your argument is the same inane argument that allows all sorts of rule breaking "cuz I don't like dem rules."

The absolutely best thing about Fitasc is that they enforce their rules unlike friendly squad-mates who let all the rules slide.

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Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:05 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 2254
Rooster booster wrote:
That's exactly what I would tell him, while trying to get a gun is his hands in order for him to shoot.


That's a shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:07 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 2254
sera wrote:
mule: Save yourself a lot of heart-ache and don't shoot Fitasc.

The rules are the rules and just b/c you don't like them , doesn't mean anyone is infringing your rights. Your argument is the same inane argument that allows all sorts of rule breaking "cuz I don't like dem rules."

The absolutely best thing about Fitasc is that they enforce their rules unlike friendly squad-mates who let all the rules slide.


Bull sh*t Sera.

I'm going to continue to shoot and enjoy FITASC, as well as continue to think outlawing pumpguns is just plain wrong and totally stupid.

If you don't like that, tough.


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:10 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 1431
I'm not sure you're getting the point. I see no reason pumps should not be allowed.....but the fact is, they aren't.

So.....there is currently an organizational rule covering that. Not a law. It has nothing to do with the US, age of the shooter, etc.. it's a rule that for now stands, so like it or lump it.

Start a petition to help FITASC see the error of their ways and get it changed. I'd sign it, but until then I won't be shooting FITASC with my pump, and neither will you.


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:22 am 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:47 pm
Posts: 174
Mule Driver wrote:
No, I'm not wrong. You are


I agree that pump guns are as American as apple pie, and traditional hunting guns in the USA. But FITASC stands for -
‘Federation Internationale de Tir Aux Sportives de Chasse’ . That's French, so apparently French people wrote some of the rules for the game you want to play. And they're afraid of pump guns.

Work on changing the rules then, while playing by them in the meantime.

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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:14 pm
Posts: 2418
Mule Driver wrote:
bopper wrote:
By god, you must be worked up! Three responses to the same post! You're putting me in my place for sure.

You're still wrong. You have no RIGHT to shoot FITASC. By paying you're money you're entering into a contract with the gun club and sanctioning body/bodies to follow the rules. I mean, why not just shoot high gun with 1-1/4 oz. loads, then?


No, I'm not wrong. You are.

Not shooting high gun and not using 1-1/4 oz. loads (which at one time was legal) are a good thing. Tell me ONE good thing about not allowing pumpguns for FITASC in the US?

Tell me exactly what's wrong that I've said. Are you continuing to argue that shooting a pump gun is your "right" (bah gawd!) despite any rules you've agreed to follow?

I'm not saying that shooting a pump gun isn't your "right" in almost any other context. But it's against the rules of the game you're playing and your "rights" don't apply.


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:43 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:57 am
Posts: 239
Wow, this thread is certainly interesting.......

I wonder if my rights would be infringed if I wanted to shoot a semi auto handgun in either USPSA's or IDPA's revolver division.


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:44 am 
*Proud to be a*
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mil-dot , I'll take your "rights infringement" case for $10,000 up front.* 8)

Some one ought to get paid for this US blessed activity , why not me.

* we're gonna lose the case which is why I want my fee up front. :wink:

_________________
Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:47 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:43 pm
Posts: 1017
You had to know where this thread would end up when you saw who the author was. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:56 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 16809
Mule Driver wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
Quote:
Not allowing pumpguns serves no purpose at all. It flies in the face of our own gun rights.


Not being allowed to carry in government buildings or within 1500' of a school is an infringement. Not allowing you to use something to play a game is not.


Disagree with that second statement.

So, tell me oneounce, as a FITASC ref, are you going to tell some young kid, who only owns a pumpgun, that he can't shoot in your event with it?

Enquiring minds want to know where you stand on this.......



The rules are explicitly stated, that is what would be enforced.

Quote:
Definition
All hunting shotguns, including semi-automatics (except for pump-action shotguns), are permitted provided that the calibre does not exceed 12 gauge, with a minimum barrel
length of 66 cm.


Why aren't you whining about not being able to use your 24" turkey gun?

Maybe you should start a US FEDECAT organization - their rules for Fan32 are simpler:
Quote:
CHAPTER II
WEAPONS AND AMMUNITION
1.- The largest calibre size allowed will be the 12 bore. This does not grant any advantage to shooters who use smaller calibre sizes.

2.- The maximum load of lead permitted is 32 grams. For the various possible calibres, number 6 shot (2.70mm ) will bethe largest diameter shot allowed.

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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 3:16 pm
Posts: 3563
Location: Southeast MI
How did this happen? When did this happen?

NSCA FITASC Rules:

2007.... "All firearms, including semi‑automatics, are permitted providing their caliber does not exceed 12 bore, with a barrel length of 66cm minimum."

2009... "All shotguns are allowed, provided they are not over 12 gauge and the barrel length is not less than 66 cm (26 inches). Semi-automatic models are also allowed, but shooters using a semi-automatic have to be careful that the ejection of the spent cartridges does not disturb the other shooters."

2010... "All hunting shotguns, including semi-automatics, are permitted provided that the caliber does not exceed 12 gauge, with a minimum barrel length of 66 cm."

2011... "All hunting shotguns, including semi-automatics, are permitted provided that the caliber does not exceed 12 gauge, with a minimum barrel length of 66 cm."

2012... "All hunting shotguns, including semi-automatics, are permitted provided that the caliber does not exceed 12 gauge, with a minimum barrel length of 66 cm."

2013... "All hunting shotguns, including semi-automatics, are permitted provided that the caliber does not exceed 12 gauge, with a minimum barrel length of 26 in. Pump-action shotguns are not permitted during International World Cup events held in the U.S.A."

2015... "All hunting shotguns, including semi-automatics, are permitted provided that the caliber does not exceed 12 gauge, with a minimum barrel length of 26 in. Pump-action shotguns are not permitted during International World Cup events held in the U.S.A."

2016... "All hunting shotguns, including semi-automatics (except for pump-action shotguns), are permitted provided that the calibre does not exceed 12 gauge, with a minimum barrel length of 66 cm. Any use of micro camera mounted on shotgun is banned."

2017... "All hunting shotguns, including semi-automatics (except for pump-action shotguns), are permitted provided that the calibre does not exceed 12 gauge, with a minimum barrel length of 66 cm. Any use of micro camera mounted on shotgun is banned."


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:57 am
Posts: 239
When did the original FITASC rules ban pump shotguns? Before or after 1995?


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 7670
Location: Upstate SC
I'm with Mule Driver and Dr. Mike here 100%.

Any comparisons to .22's or .30-06 are incredibly non-related.

If a pump shotgun is 12 gauge or smaller; if the shooter only loads 2 rounds; and if those rounds are legal as to pellet size and charge, it appears to meet the rules. And if not, it's stupid.

Yes, we all know that certain items of clothing are not allowed and one strats out with the butt below the line; and also that in certain countries Pumps might not be allowed by law, but certainly not makes no sense here.


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 1431
That's where thinking outside our little box comes in handy......


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 Post subject: Re: Another FITASC question: Why not pumpguns?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:59 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:21 am
Posts: 143
Pump guns are allowed in US Fitasc competition with the exception of World Cup events.

Joe




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