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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:44 am 
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marist89 wrote:
blackandgold wrote:
As a prospective AC candidate/member, what is your reaction and solution? #marist89ForAC

From my perspective, the NSSA is trying to work with the current AC/EC members to come to a mutually agreed to modifications to the COI. The people on the AC/EC are well respected members of the community and they were elected to those positions by the delegates. It doesn't help anybody to have them silenced and/or replaced.

On the other hand, the NSSA has the absolute right and duty to protect it's "industry secrets". As I have said in the past, a reasonable COI is a necessity. The argument is over what reasonable is. I don't derive any of my livelihood from the shooting industry (except a couple articles I may write for magazines which don't even cover Terry's bar tab), and I thought 5 years after your term expires was onerous.

My guess, and this is only a guess, is that a quorum already exists and they're trying to get everybody on board before anything is announced.


A. That would be the rational approach.
B. I hope you are correct.
C. People being people, it would not surprise me if everyone gathered in a windowless room to fight it out with rocks and sharp sticks.
D. We’ll see.




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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:47 am 
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marist89 wrote:
blackandgold wrote:
As a prospective AC candidate/member, what is your reaction and solution? #marist89ForAC

From my perspective, the NSSA is trying to work with the current AC/EC members to come to a mutually agreed to modifications to the COI. The people on the AC/EC are well respected members of the community and they were elected to those positions by the delegates. It doesn't help anybody to have them silenced and/or replaced.

On the other hand, the NSSA has the absolute right and duty to protect it's "industry secrets". As I have said in the past, a reasonable COI is a necessity. The argument is over what reasonable is. I don't derive any of my livelihood from the shooting industry (except a couple articles I may write for magazines which don't even cover Terry's bar tab), and I thought 5 years after your term expires was onerous.

My guess, and this is only a guess, is that a quorum already exists and they're trying to get everybody on board before anything is announced.


Did the old COI statement not cover stealing trade secrets/intellectual property? What was wrong with the old one?

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:56 am 
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blackandgold, Are you a member of NSCA? Just asking.

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 am 
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blackandgold wrote:
Did the old COI statement not cover stealing trade secrets/intellectual property? What was wrong with the old one?

A change in Texas Corporate Law caused the NSSA to re-examine their corporate documents. The COI was something that the lawyers thought should be changed. I'm sure we'll never know, nor do I think we need to know.

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:02 pm 
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KRIEGHOFFK80 wrote:
blackandgold, Are you a member of NSCA? Just asking.


I have answered this question from you several times but I will cheerfully answer it again. I used to be an NSCA member but I chose not to renew. I was going to rejoin as a NSSA member because why pay the same dues and have less membership rights? I'm not even sure I'm going to do that now. {hs# {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:04 pm 
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marist89 wrote:
blackandgold wrote:
Did the old COI statement not cover stealing trade secrets/intellectual property? What was wrong with the old one?

A change in Texas Corporate Law caused the NSSA to re-examine their corporate documents. The COI was something that the lawyers thought should be changed. I'm sure we'll never know, nor do I think we need to know.


Would you sign the current COI?

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:23 pm 
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marist89 wrote:
A change in Texas Corporate Law caused the NSSA to re-examine their corporate documents. The COI was something that the lawyers thought should be changed.


That's the premise, aka the cover story. And probably true, if that were the extent of it. But what better opportunity could come along to increase your grip on the golden goose's neck?

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:26 pm 
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blackandgold wrote:
marist89 wrote:
blackandgold wrote:
Did the old COI statement not cover stealing trade secrets/intellectual property? What was wrong with the old one?

A change in Texas Corporate Law caused the NSSA to re-examine their corporate documents. The COI was something that the lawyers thought should be changed. I'm sure we'll never know, nor do I think we need to know.


Would you sign the current COI?

I would want certain clarifications put in, but yes.

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"Both Texas Tiger and Marist summarized proper pull away very well in the first two replys to your question." -- ZKienbaum
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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:30 pm 
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marist89 wrote:
blackandgold wrote:
marist89 wrote:
A change in Texas Corporate Law caused the NSSA to re-examine their corporate documents. The COI was something that the lawyers thought should be changed. I'm sure we'll never know, nor do I think we need to know.


Would you sign the current COI?

I would want certain clarifications put in, but yes.


Clarifications as in changing the legal language or clarification as in explanation of the various clauses and statements?

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:05 pm
Posts: 266
blackandgold wrote:
marist89 wrote:
blackandgold wrote:
Did the old COI statement not cover stealing trade secrets/intellectual property? What was wrong with the old one?

A change in Texas Corporate Law caused the NSSA to re-examine their corporate documents. The COI was something that the lawyers thought should be changed. I'm sure we'll never know, nor do I think we need to know.


Would you sign the current COI?


FWIW, the state NSCA delegates haven't been asked to sign anything (yet?).


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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Clarifications as in this agreement only defines a competing organization as an organization that is national in scope. For example, maybe I want to become a board member at my local Fish & Game club, but a loosely defined COI could deter that.

In reality, the NSSA would have a hard time proving damages from a local F&G, but guess who would have to pay the bill to defend it?

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:45 pm 
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marist89 wrote:
Clarifications as in this agreement only defines a competing organization as an organization that is national in scope. For example, maybe I want to become a board member at my local Fish & Game club, but a loosely defined COI could deter that.

In reality, the NSSA would have a hard time proving damages from a local F&G, but guess who would have to pay the bill to defend it?


Threat of legal costs for even a frivolous is certainly a deterrent or weapon. I think you are wise to wish to limit the scope.

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:58 pm 
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marist89 wrote:
A change in Texas Corporate Law caused the NSSA to re-examine their corporate documents. The COI was something that the lawyers thought should be changed. I'm sure we'll never know, nor do I think we need to know.


Well, that just not true, or as least incomplete. If you read the NSSA president's remarks you'll see that.

According to the president a new COI that was in compliance with Texas Corporate Law was drafted.

But before that could be adopted, in the president's words, we were made aware that several individuals in key NSCA-elected leadership positions on the Advisory Council and the Executive Council were conducting subversive activities.

And so, again in the president's words, ...the COI form was updated to a combined Conflict of Interest/Confidentiality/Non-Disclosure form, with expanded scope necessary to protect all assets...

So clearly this newest COI serves other purposes that just complying with Texas Corporate Law.

http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/2018/01/22/op ... embership/


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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:08 pm 
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ShowMe wrote:
marist89 wrote:
A change in Texas Corporate Law caused the NSSA to re-examine their corporate documents. The COI was something that the lawyers thought should be changed. I'm sure we'll never know, nor do I think we need to know.


Well, that just not true, or as least incomplete. If you read the NSSA president's remarks you'll see that.

According to the president a new COI that was in compliance with Texas Corporate Law was drafted.

But before that could be adopted, in the president's words, we were made aware that several individuals in key NSCA-elected leadership positions on the Advisory Council and the Executive Council were conducting subversive activities.

And so, again in the president's words, ...the COI form was updated to a combined Conflict of Interest/Confidentiality/Non-Disclosure form, with expanded scope necessary to protect all assets...

So clearly this newest COI serves other purposes that just complying with Texas Corporate Law.

http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/2018/01/22/op ... embership/


They used plural language in selecting the term subversives, so is the entire AC/EC subversive? Probably not since they used the word several. So I wouldn't paint the AC/EC with too broad of a brush.

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:13 pm 
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ShowMe wrote:
So clearly this newest COI serves other purposes that just complying with Texas Corporate Law.

http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/2018/01/22/op ... embership/

Nor did I say it was. In fact, I said:
Quote:
A change in Texas Corporate Law caused the NSSA to re-examine their corporate documents. The COI was something that the lawyers thought should be changed.

which is 100% accurate.

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:15 pm 
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As a NON Profit, member run organization, that publishes their financials, and the Organization is to "sanction" shoots and keep results, I have to ask, what, other than non compete, "secrets" could they possible have that require any kind of strict non-disclosure?
They planning moon shots or something?

Marketing plan? the plan is to fleece more money for the Directors wife's budget!
Nepotism and the obvious CONFLICT of interest is clear to anyone that has ever had a real job! But seems obtuse only to those that run the NSSA ( and own the NSCA!).

PS.
One other question? As the NSSA and NSCA are "non-profit" 501(C3) orgs.

Is the NSC (national shooting complex) also set up as a 501 (C3) ???


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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
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marist89 wrote:
ShowMe wrote:
So clearly this newest COI serves other purposes that just complying with Texas Corporate Law.

http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/2018/01/22/op ... embership/

Nor did I say it was. In fact, I said:
Quote:
A change in Texas Corporate Law caused the NSSA to re-examine their corporate documents. The COI was something that the lawyers thought should be changed.

which is 100% accurate.


It's not 100% accurate. It's misleading.

Yes, a COI was drafted to comply with Texas Corporate Law. It wasn't adopted. If the only motivation was to comply with Texas Corporate Law, that would have sufficed.

But AFTER "information about the subversive activities became clear,...the COI form was updated to a combined Conflict of Interest/Confidentiality/Non-Disclosure form, with expanded scope necessary to protect all assets...". The form we have was was drafted and an anti-insurgency tool.


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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:13 pm 
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unplugged wrote:
I have to ask, what, other than non compete, "secrets" could they possible have that require any kind of strict non-disclosure?


Good question. I served as a Director. I don't recollect that Directors were ever provided confidential information or secrets. Certainly there was no information provided that I would have been reluctant to share with the shooters in my state.

At that time, financials were published in Skeet Shooting Review as well as comprehensive and informative minutes of the Board and EC meetings. Today you have to dig thru the website to find skeleton minutes that obfuscate the business conducted.


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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:32 am 
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It's misleading because you want to read more than what's there.

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 Post subject: Re: High Drama in San Antonio
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:32 am 
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No, it’s misleading because there IS a lot more than what’s in your simple statement. And he proved it by quoting from the source itself, Jr’s letter. You may not know all the facts, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist, and burying your head in the sand wishing they’d just go away isn’t going to solve anything. Either you just want to shoot and stay out of the politics, or you have to want an honest accounting and resolution of the issues currently harming the sport.



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