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 Post subject: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:45 am 
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In his recent Target Tactics column Don Currie talks about the soft mount. In video 112a on the free access portion of his OSP website Gil Ash mentions a soft mount to the shoulder. Wondering if anyone can clarify what I’m interpreting are different definitions of soft mount?

Don Currie’s use of the term seems to mean the gun is mounted well under the cheekbone so the gun is lower on the face than is usually seen. Gil Ash mentions the shoulder. As much as I think Gil can be very perceptive I’m not so sure this is the best turn of phrase as generally Gil emphasizes mounting to the cheek.

Prior to the Don Currie article I thought the term meant don’t weld the wood hard to the cheekbone.




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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:50 am 
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My definitions of mounts yours may be different.

Cheat Mount -an inch or so off shoulder and below cheek

Soft Mount- think from a Fitasc mount- about half way or more higher and a couple 3 inches or so below cheek

Hard mount- fully into the gun such as you see in Trap/Skeet and many Sporting Shooters

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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:19 am 
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Coaches have to invent 'their' names for techniques known for years to create a 'brand' that is sellable and hence revenue Those two in particular

There maybe 3 or 4 mounts, Field, FITASC, Soft and Premount Learn when to use each one


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:57 am 
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Actually pretty sure Don uses low (FITASC); mid or half-way between low and soft; and then soft (some say cheat) where the gun is shouldered, but your face is not on the stock; and then there is fully pre-mounted. It is important to note that there are two ways to accomplish the soft or cheat; one is raising your head, the other is dropping your shoulder -- both Don and Gill will advocate dropping your shoulder so that you mount "up" to your cheek without moving your head down as you engage the target.

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The simple answer is, "K80, 32" flat-rib bbls, S&S custom stock, 55/45, Bornaghi 1oz 1250 7-½'s, M/M, Castelani, Lonesome Charlie, K-lube, qMaxx blue, Bore-snake, green Brake-cleen, and a very cold and dry Stoli martini."


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:14 am 
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My original post was leaning towards a slightly different question than what different draw lengths might be used. In the Target Tactics email I received last night, Don Currie’s words sound to me like soft mount means mounting the comb of the gun low on the face, well under the expected cheekbone area usually advocated. I’ve not heard Gil Ash recommend that approach. I thought Gil meant don’t lean hard into the stock.


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:46 am 
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For Don, his mount and timing IS all about draw-length. I've never heard Don or Gil advocate anything but good, repeated mount for all shots. Some folks may mount "softer" on the cheek than others, but as long as they're consistent AND the shot goes where they're looking is what matters.

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The simple answer is, "K80, 32" flat-rib bbls, S&S custom stock, 55/45, Bornaghi 1oz 1250 7-½'s, M/M, Castelani, Lonesome Charlie, K-lube, qMaxx blue, Bore-snake, green Brake-cleen, and a very cold and dry Stoli martini."


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:59 am 
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In my mind a soft mount is one where the stock is slightly off of the shoulder and out of the pocket. Many great shooters use this type of mount and some don't. With the gun slightly off the shoulder the shooter will be able to see better and make a short move to be completely mounted. This is a big advantage over a FITASC low mount. Just my definition.

Mike McAlpine
The Clay Target Academy


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Good definition Mike, exactly what I think of when I hear soft moubt


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Jack if I send you a video will you put it up?


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Mount the gun to your shoulder. Lift your head and make sure the bbls are below the line of the target. As you get good visual lock on the target lift the gun the last 1.5 inches and shoot the target.

Or

You can spend $10,000,000 on coaches to teach you how to mount a gun.

Jeez louise.

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Last edited by sera on Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:34 pm 
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The most important thing with either a soft or low mount is that in both cases it should be a parallel mount. Many shooters don't mount their guns with a parallel action and this fault will show up on the pattern board during a fitting session.

FITASC and especially Olympic/International skeet shooters are picky about this, take a look at Vincent Hancock on YouTube. His mount is flawless.


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:03 pm 
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pete blakeley wrote:
The most important thing with either a soft or low mount is that in both cases it should be a parallel mount. Many shooters don't mount their guns with a parallel action and this fault will show up on the pattern board during a fitting session.

FITASC and especially Olympic/International skeet shooters are picky about this, take a look at Vincent Hancock on YouTube. His mount is flawless.


Vincent Hancock is great but those international skeet people always look to me like their hold point is above the line. Then the need for speed is mind boggling.

Pete, parallel mount is a bit off where I was going with this thread but wondering if you could provide a definition so there are no misconceptions?


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:13 pm 
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Gil Ash wrote:
Jack if I send you a video will you put it up?


Yessir!

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The simple answer is, "K80, 32" flat-rib bbls, S&S custom stock, 55/45, Bornaghi 1oz 1250 7-½'s, M/M, Castelani, Lonesome Charlie, K-lube, qMaxx blue, Bore-snake, green Brake-cleen, and a very cold and dry Stoli martini."


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Smoke JS. I didn't mean to pull the OP off topic so I apologize for that but I did understand what you meant.

Many shooters drop the gun out of their shoulder with a "soft" mount and then as they complete the mount, as the shot is triggered the back hand brings the butt of the gun into the shoulder pocket. As they do this the gun "pivots" slightly around the front hand and this will drop the gun off-line below. It doesn't take much, a muzzle dip of an inch will translate to a miss under the target of several feet at 40 yards. If the target is rising, (a springing teal for example) a miss is the result.

With parallel mount the gun is brought up to the shoulder with both front and back hands lifting in unison to stop this ie. a parallel action. The further the gun starts away from the shoulder (FITASC and the mandatory hip position of Olymic skeet) means that the pivot problem is amplified and the muzzles can dip several inches. Many shooters don't realize they are doing this until I point it out on a gunfitting session.


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Here is Gil's video showing his "eyes over nose" looking at target and "soft mount" as he engages :

https://youtu.be/ITseS-qfC8M

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The simple answer is, "K80, 32" flat-rib bbls, S&S custom stock, 55/45, Bornaghi 1oz 1250 7-½'s, M/M, Castelani, Lonesome Charlie, K-lube, qMaxx blue, Bore-snake, green Brake-cleen, and a very cold and dry Stoli martini."


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:28 pm 
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JacksBack wrote:
Here is Gil's video showing his "eyes over nose" looking at target and "soft mount" as he engages :

https://youtu.be/ITseS-qfC8M

Disclaimer: I can't see the target so I don't know if it's what I would do or not.

I find it a little interesting that Gil seems to rush to mount the gun and then track the bird with his gun. Maybe he was trying to demonstrate something.

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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:01 pm 
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I shoot old SxS's and all my guns have the same stock dimensions. DAC-2 1/8," DAH - 3 1/4, LOP 15 1/4". I shoot low gun, head up, and I guess you guys would say a soft or low mount. The gun mounts to my jaw, eyes parallel to the rib. I like it because I never have to worry about lifting my head, it's already up.

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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:57 pm 
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What I think I see in the video may be an incorrect interpretation particularly as I think I see something that seems to not be in line with what I consider as being the usual OSP approach.

It looks to me as if Gil is mounting from a not overly low draw length. The mount apears to be to the shoulder first. I then see the head/cheek move down to the stock.

That’s consistent with the phraseology Gil uses when he talks about the soft mount. Apparently I didn’t take that at face value. Of course any value of mounting to the shoulder first is going to take a lot more discussion for me to consider adopting. My prefernce is to use the cheek as the anchor point of the gun mount. Obviously my shoulder comes to the gun but when mounting to the cheek first my shoulder isn’t something I’m aware of during the gun mount.


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Guys this is just another tool in our tool box of techniques on the separator birds that are being thrown now. If you want to learn more of the value and lethality of this move come see us. You will not believe how lethal it is and how it makes everything slow down so much more than ever before.


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 Post subject: Re: Soft Mount?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:05 am 
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Perhaps we should forget all this Rocking Horse Manure and learn to do it properly ?
Full Mount as per Trap shooters , FITASC as per the rules or correct low gun mount as per 'The Better Shot' by Ken Davis which is taught and practiced from childhood in England.




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