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WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered Shooters
Poll runs till Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:25 pm
1.) Yes 44%  44%  [ 15 ]
2.) No 56%  56%  [ 19 ]
Total votes : 34
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 Post subject: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Do multi club events thrown over two days with mandatory purses deter you from participating?



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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Which one are you asking about?

Multi club events? Two days? Mandatory purses?

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:40 pm 
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mandatory class purse is deterring because if you only plan to shoot only one day, or just one club, or whatever the case, you are basically giving that money right to someone else shooting the entire event.

Plus if that person wants to shoot options and or lewis, they are still having to foot their portion, so essentially it turns into 20 bucks gone, where as if you were just shooting the option or lewis, it would only be 10.

I get what they are trying to do, replace the iron man, or at least do their own version of it down here. I think it's great that you have 4 clubs throwing targets in one weekend, and there is the chance to shoot 400 targets, so for that I'm thankful.

Do away with the mandatory purse, keep the entry fee around 55 bucks or so, and maybe push it back on the calendar a few weeks, and this has the opportunity to be a great event down here.

My other idea was say Wern throws sporting clays , then say Waukesha and West Bend throw super sporting or a 100 target 5 stand or something like that. Mix it up with multiple disciplines at each club, then offer a 4 club lewis buy in option for anyone looking to compete across all 4 clubs.

I'm just spit balling ideas on this event down here, but the mandatory class lewis does not sit well with guys shooting only one club or only one day.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:31 am 
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georgeh41 wrote:
mandatory class purse is deterring because if you only plan to shoot only one day, or just one club, or whatever the case, you are basically giving that money right to someone else shooting the entire event.



........ but the mandatory class lewis does not sit well with guys shooting only one club or only one day.

:!: :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:36 am 
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I dont understand what all the fuss is about. At all the major multi day shoots we pay the prize money others win. They just dont distribute that money by Lewis Class rules. Just the top 3 (or so) shooters get it in each class.
The pay out did not raise the cost of the shoot. For $50.00 plus $7.00 in fees we get 100 targets. And a really cheap lunch at Waukesha most of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:50 am 
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It's not fuss Steve, it's just that some guys don't want to pay into a mandatory class purse when they know they aren't going to be shooting all of the events. I can't blame them either because I feel somewhat of the same way.

Big shoots are one thing, IE state , regional , us open , national etc.

If the clubs needs to pull more money for entry, then just raise the price according, and make the lewis class optional like normal.

Pushing mandatory class purses will push shooters away. Some shooters are just concerned about the direction clubs are headed, that's all.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:11 am 
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The question IMO is phrased improperly. I have no problem with mandatory CLASS purses. I don't like mandatory LEWIS class purses as that forces me to participate in a what is essentially a game of chance except for those people who are likely to win HOA.

Internet polling aside, it seems to me that free choice and free markets should determine whether this is a good idea.

I would not want to pay into a Lewis class if I were only going to shoot a leg or two of a multi-day event. I truly think it should be optional. If it is not optional, I have the free choice not to shoot.

If enough people feel the same way as I do, attendance will be poor and the clubs will learn from the experience and not do it again -- assuming that the clubs are run by smart business people.

If turnout is excellent and the events make money, the clubs made the right decision for them, even if I don't agree with it and chose not to participate.


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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:28 am 
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georgeh41 wrote:
Big shoots are one thing, IE state , regional , us open , national etc.



In this state we pay into class purses for most major shoots. I could list 4 or 5 that come to mind that do not include our state shoot.
Furthermore this shoot does not cost any more money then the ones a few weeks ago were no money was returned.
These clubs are holding a shoot for $57.00, minus $7.00 in fees and $10.00 for the purse. Leaves them $40.00, it costs the general public $36.00 to shoot the same number of targets,thats a lot of work for $4.00 more in profit.


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Last edited by Steve Y on Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:38 am 
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Steve Y wrote:
I dont understand what all the fuss is about.


Steve

Exactly. That is why this was posted in order to enlighten clubs as to the desires of shooters.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:45 am 
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birdshooter1 wrote:
The question IMO is phrased improperly.

Specifically a compulsory overall Lewis class at all 4 events over 2 days at 3 clubs.
If you DO NOT participate at ALL four events you are ineligible for ANY compulsory Lewis money.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:47 am 
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georgeh41 wrote:
, it's just that some guys don't want to pay into a mandatory class purse


Yeah, and his name is Brad. I've got enough people (democrats) trying to spend my money.

Optional money back to class is great. Want to gamble, have fun. Me, I prefer to keep my money.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:02 pm 
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that's how alot of shooters feel about this shoot Brad, I'm glad the question was posed, and hopefully the clubs will listen, I'm sure some will, and some won't.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:53 pm 
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So if this shoot cost $57.00/100 targets no one would care? Then, if on Sunday night all 3 club managers got together and decided to give away a certain amount of their profits in a Lewis class payout, would it change anything?
All the managers are "guilty" of is announcing it ahead of time in an effort to get more people to shoot all 4 events. What they do with their profits is not up to us.
We all have to remember, they are doing us a favor by holding these events and doing all the necessary work. We need them, they dont need us.
This is one sentence copied from another site that is also about this topic.

we throw over 3 million targets a year with only about 7% (200,000) being registered Sporting clays.

Wisconsin has lost 3 clubs that used to throw registered targets, 2 are still in business and doing very well. Lets not loose any more.


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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:35 pm 
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so basically it's more profitable to sell beer and pizza to 5 stand and league shooters then punches?

I don't think anyone is upset about 4 clubs throwing 400 targets in two days......personally I think it's great, and it's truly a good event, I shot it last year and enjoyed myself, and overall when the shoot schedule came out, I was really excited about it.

There is concern in the shooting community, within our area about the mandatory class purse, that's all this is trying to do, shine the light on it, and gauge the opinion of the shooters that are shooting in the events.

I think you will draw more shooters by doing away with the mandatory class purse. Or as I mentioned earlier perhaps do different events at each club.

Super Sporting or a 100 bird five stand, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:53 pm 
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georgeh41 wrote:
so basically it's more profitable to sell beer and pizza to 5 stand and league shooters then punches?



The person who said that didnt say it was more profitable, he stated we only make up 7% of the club business based on targets thrown.


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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Mandatory money back, sucks. You want me to pay for somebody's prize money?

No thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:20 pm 
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I don't have a problem with a mandatory purse but I do understand why some people would ,
As long as the club explains the structure ahead of time you either accept it and go or you don't.

Respect is a two-way street I don't think a shooter wants to hear you need us or for the all the work that we have to do it's not worth it, only to turn around and say now we're having a registered shoot come and
support us

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:49 am 
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This being portrayed as a mandatory purse is a little disingenuous. So, three clubs in the area decided to throw 400 targets over one weekend (one club is doing 200 targets). The three clubs agreed upon a price per 100 targets, $57 per 100 targets registered, maybe a little more than a usual 100 registered but still a reasonable price IMHO. Then the clubs are putting $10 per shooter into a combined Lewis class if the shooter shoot all four legs of the tournament. The clubs are trying to encourage participation for everyone in all classes and maybe lure in some new shooters early in the year. Last year there were a lot of payouts, punches, and team point earned.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:40 am 
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andykb692 wrote:
This being portrayed as a mandatory purse is a little disingenuous. So, three clubs in the area decided to throw 400 targets over one weekend (one club is doing 200 targets). The three clubs agreed upon a price per 100 targets, $57 per 100 targets registered, maybe a little more than a usual 100 registered but still a reasonable price IMHO. Then the clubs are putting $10 per shooter into a combined Lewis class if the shooter shoot all four legs of the tournament. The clubs are trying to encourage participation for everyone in all classes and maybe lure in some new shooters early in the year. Last year there were a lot of payouts, punches, and team point earned.


This being portrayed as a non mandatory/compulsory purse is a little ignorant.
It is marketing spin with a dollop of bad, greasy salesmanship on top.
If the club/clubs were really interested in encouraging participation, they might start by
understanding that many shooters would probably attend without the ruse. Without trying to raise profits through implied lewis money, that is in fact required to participate. It is the principle of the matter.

One thing that is very apparent in the state. The club owners and managers that are active NSCA shooters, that still travel to other clubs frequently seem to be able have a feel for what registered NSCA registered tournament shooters want. Not a bunch of league targets that have been thrown for months interspersed with a few legitimate tournament stations.
The clubs that respond in kind are able to draw shooters without gimmicks. They also don't tell you that this is what we are doing and you will like it or you are personally jeopardizing
registered shoots if you voice your opinion. They also are able to command fees relative to the quality of target presentations. That is apparent in the state to the south. Supply and demand as this is a service industry.

As a previous NSCA/WI National Delegate for six years I walked away with a history of representing the shooters more than the clubs. Though I tried to achieve a balance as the association had much more clout. I was not a club mouthpiece and I left with my self respect and dignity intact.

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Last edited by remdog1187 on Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WI Sporting Clays Assc. NSCA Registered members
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:57 am 
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I guess I don’t understand the difference between this and payouts at State, Sposored, Regional, etc. shoots. Tournaments with higher entry fees and mandatory payouts. Where do you think the money comes from? The entry fees partially go to fund those payouts, along with added money from sponsors or whatever. So what’s the difference? Just the fact that they didn’t tell you where it came from makes it okay? I don’t get the big deal.



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