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 Post subject: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:15 pm 
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I have been out of the game for a while. As I’m getting back in, I have noticed that FITASC has introduced rules to manage target difficulty to standardize the game. So I was wondering is English Sporting also following similar guidelines to standardize the game at Major Events? Thank you.




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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:25 am 
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Simple answer is no.

More complex answer is *most* good setters are good enough to set within one or two targets of what the HOA score will be. The separation between good and great setting is the ability to control the HOA and at the same time maintain some balance by having enough fun targets to keep it enjoyable for newer shooters.

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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:02 am 
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JacksBack wrote:
Simple answer is no.

More complex answer is *most* good setters are good enough to set within one or two targets of what the HOA score will be. The separation between good and great setting is the ability to control the HOA and at the same time maintain some balance by having enough fun targets to keep it enjoyable for newer shooters.


Jack....What are your typical chokes & shot size for FITASC ? Though I've never shot it, the game seems intriguing...................

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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:25 pm 
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J2hapydna wrote:
I have been out of the game for a while. As I’m getting back in, I have noticed that FITASC has introduced rules to manage target difficulty to standardize the game. So I was wondering is English Sporting also following similar guidelines to standardize the game at Major Events? Thank you.


Not quite sure what you are referring to by “introduced rules to manage target difficulty”? Its always been “nothing too far nothing too close” concept, not always fallowed.


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Fitasc2 wrote:
J2hapydna wrote:
I have been out of the game for a while. As I’m getting back in, I have noticed that FITASC has introduced rules to manage target difficulty to standardize the game. So I was wondering is English Sporting also following similar guidelines to standardize the game at Major Events? Thank you.


Not quite sure what you are referring to by “introduced rules to manage target difficulty”? Its always been “nothing too far nothing too close” concept, not always fallowed.

Read the rule book, especially the section on Class A, B, and C targets. This is new in maybe the last 5-7 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:42 pm 
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cheecho1960 wrote:
JacksBack wrote:
Simple answer is no.

More complex answer is *most* good setters are good enough to set within one or two targets of what the HOA score will be. The separation between good and great setting is the ability to control the HOA and at the same time maintain some balance by having enough fun targets to keep it enjoyable for newer shooters.


Jack....What are your typical chokes & shot size for FITASC ? Though I've never shot it, the game seems intriguing...................


Since Jack is taking a break, Fitasc concept is same as Sporting Clays. I will choke according to the targets usually something like IC, LM or M. I will change to more open for closer targets, on a station (peg) you can only change between singles and doubles. I shoot an O/U so I have two barrels. I find just like Sporting for me I use about 75% 8’s and 25% 71/2’s. Many people shoot just 71/2. In Fitasc you cannot use spreaders, reloads or duplex shot, 1 oz is max.


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Personally, I would start with a LM and choke tighter from there. 1oz 7.5s will cover any target you see Targets are supposed to run between 35 and 55 yards - at least for the first shot. The better shots I see when I ref tend to use chokes from .025 to .035 and 7.5 shot size.

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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:56 pm 
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bopper wrote:
Fitasc2 wrote:
J2hapydna wrote:
I have been out of the game for a while. As I’m getting back in, I have noticed that FITASC has introduced rules to manage target difficulty to standardize the game. So I was wondering is English Sporting also following similar guidelines to standardize the game at Major Events? Thank you.


Not quite sure what you are referring to by “introduced rules to manage target difficulty”? Its always been “nothing too far nothing too close” concept, not always fallowed.

Read the rule book, especially the section on Class A, B, and C targets. This is new in maybe the last 5-7 years.


2011-2012 its not in 2010 in the 2013 book however read the statement above that A,B,C chart pg 55 2017 book. Its the same as the 15 seconds allowed between singles, doubles only in World Cup under NSCA its still 20 seconds.


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:13 pm 
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Any event with International implications uses the 15 second rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Fitasc2 wrote:
2011-2012 its not in 2010 in the 2013 book however read the statement above that A,B,C chart pg 55 2017 book. Its the same as the 15 seconds allowed between singles, doubles only in World Cup under NSCA its still 20 seconds.

Wut?


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:30 pm 
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bopper wrote:
Fitasc2 wrote:
2011-2012 its not in 2010 in the 2013 book however read the statement above that A,B,C chart pg 55 2017 book. Its the same as the 15 seconds allowed between singles, doubles only in World Cup under NSCA its still 20 seconds.

Wut?


The A,B,C class chart applies to World Cup. “We in the US will only enforce the following part of this rule during a World Cup event”. chart follows ect.


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:42 pm 
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And? Those rules still exist to govern the target difficulty.


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:48 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
Any event with International implications uses the 15 second rule.

Yes my guess is thats correct, however official language only says World Cup.
I was shooting in the Gator Cup 20ga Fitasc and after my first peg singles the Ref said I was taking too long I had 15 seconds. So I did better the rest of my Fitasc events but noticed the NSCA rule book and on line said 20 seconds. So as I’m headed for the US Open next week and I emailed NSCA with “Fitasc updated the rule the first of the year on max time allowed between shots from 20 seconds to 15 sec. (7.5). Under NSCA Fitasc is this now our limit?
Ans. “Only if it is a World Cup event then we must follow Fitasc rules”.
Brett Moyes NSCA Director
Word for word.


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:52 pm 
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bopper wrote:
And? Those rules still exist to govern the target difficulty.


I see no reason why it couldn’t, but it still only applies to a World Cup as I read it.


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:30 pm 
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If you ref says 15 seconds, the follow it. I fail to see why anyone needs that much time in the first place - you either have your act together or you don't. In either event, it won't matter. If you're focusing on 5 seconds, then you're NOT focusing on the targets ans your plan of attack

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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:11 pm 
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cheecho1960 wrote:

Jack....What are your typical chokes & shot size for FITASC ? Though I've never shot it, the game seems intriguing...................


I tend to choke my normal spirting Mods for fitasc. I shoot 1250 fps 7-1/2’s, and then carry a few faster promo 1oz loads and use them as a “legal” quasi spreader. I tend to choke both bbls same so I don’t have to think about anything but the targets.

In sporting when both targets are close I may screw in my Sk and IC, but again my normal chokes are mods. it essentially never happens in fitasc that all targets are close, and I can’t recall the last time I went to a more open choke, but do recall using my F a few times.

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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:19 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
If you ref says 15 seconds, the follow it. I fail to see why anyone needs that much time in the first place - you either have your act together or you don't. In either event, it won't matter. If you're focusing on 5 seconds, then you're NOT focusing on the targets ans your plan of attack


I use the gauge mates and the hull in the bottom barrel was sticking and I had to pry the hull out, took 3-5 seconds to remove. I was able to clean it before the next peg than no problem. If the ref says 15 sec and is wrong I dont have to follow it. Normally no I dont take anywhere near 15 sec. Are you coming to the Open?


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:09 am 
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Interesting. So it seems, the NSCA does not enforce these FITASC Rules except at the World Cup. So what happens when targets don’t conform to the A,B,C classifications rules at the World? Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:49 am 
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Re FITASC, where I shoot the 15 second rule is currently enforced. The target difficulty guidlines remain only for World Cup events. Only a few crumudgeonly older refs won’t give you 20 if you’re having extraction issues. The extra time could be an issue at a big blast and I could see where you’d get called for repeated offenses.

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 Post subject: Re: Target difficulty
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:05 am 
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J2hapydna wrote:
Interesting. So it seems, the NSCA does not enforce these FITASC Rules except at the World Cup. So what happens when targets don’t conform to the A,B,C classifications rules at the World? Thanks


Thats a good question, the International shoots usually has a committee that reviews the targets and adjusts them. “Varied trajectories are recommended for each stand” operative word “recommended” just below that chart. I’ve never heard of any complaints filed about this.
Also 2.5.2 applies to World Cup, however 99.999% of the time you will shoot the targets as a single before you do as a double. It is legal to just show a new target as a double before shooting it, I have seen this.




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