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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:57 pm 
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bopper wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
Gunsmokesupply wrote:
Here is the format for the World All Around shotgun championship.

INTERNATIONAL TRAP - 50 TARGETS
*AMERICAN TRAP (27-yard) - 100 TARGETS
INTERNATIONAL SKEET - 50 TARGETS
*AMERICAN SKEET - 100 TARGETS

ZZ BIRDS - 30 TARGETS
*SUPER SPORT - 100 TARGETS (INCLUDED WITH US OPEN)
*FITASC - 50 TARGETS (INCLUDED WITH US OPEN)

SEMI FINALS - TOP 10 SHOOT DOWN TO 5

FINALS - TOP 5 SHOOT FOR TITLE OF WORLD ALL AROUND SHOTGUN CHAMPION

Dave


If all targets count the same, then it looks like Skeet and Trap shooting account for nearly 2/3 of the total score.

So nearly 2/3 of the events shouldn't count for nearly 2/3 of the score in an "all around" championship?


IMO, trap and skeet targets shouldn't comprise 2/3 of an "all around" clay shooting championship, especially when you consider that part of the Super Sporting targets and maybe some of the FITASC targets will be just slight variations of skeet and/or trap targets.

I think that a better "all around" championship would be the following:

American Skeet: 50
Intl Skeet: 50
American Trap 50
Intl Trap 50
English Sporting 100
Super Sporting 100
FITASC 70
ZZ Birds 30

With a shootoff of the top scores as described above.



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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Ulysses wrote:
Gunsmokesupply wrote:
Here is the format for the World All Around shotgun championship.

INTERNATIONAL TRAP - 50 TARGETS
*AMERICAN TRAP (27-yard) - 100 TARGETS
INTERNATIONAL SKEET - 50 TARGETS
*AMERICAN SKEET - 100 TARGETS

ZZ BIRDS - 30 TARGETS
*SUPER SPORT - 100 TARGETS (INCLUDED WITH US OPEN)
*FITASC - 50 TARGETS (INCLUDED WITH US OPEN)

SEMI FINALS - TOP 10 SHOOT DOWN TO 5

FINALS - TOP 5 SHOOT FOR TITLE OF WORLD ALL AROUND SHOTGUN CHAMPION

Dave


If all targets count the same, then it looks like Skeet and Trap shooting account for nearly 2/3 of the total score.

Ya but are there any skeet or trap shooters in the top 10?

I bet not.


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Ulysses wrote:
IMO, trap and skeet targets shouldn't comprise 2/3 of an "all around" clay shooting championship, especially when you consider that part of the Super Sporting targets and maybe some of the FITASC targets will be just slight variations of skeet and/or trap targets.

I think you're incorrectly discounting the different challenge of Trap and Skeet, especially in long runs. It's a very much a mental game, who can maintain focus the longest and the best.

And, yes, certainly the same shots are seen on a sporting clays course/FITASC parcours but that doesn't properly simulate the challenge of trying to shoot 100-straight on a trap or skeet field, a skill which should be used in determining an all-around clay target champion.


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:44 pm 
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bopper wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
IMO, trap and skeet targets shouldn't comprise 2/3 of an "all around" clay shooting championship, especially when you consider that part of the Super Sporting targets and maybe some of the FITASC targets will be just slight variations of skeet and/or trap targets.

I think you're incorrectly discounting the different challenge of Trap and Skeet, especially in long runs. It's a very much a mental game, who can maintain focus the longest and the best.

And, yes, certainly the same shots are seen on a sporting clays course/FITASC parcours but that doesn't properly simulate the challenge of trying to shoot 100-straight on a trap or skeet field, a skill which should be used in determining an all-around clay target champion.


No, I'm not discounting the different skills, challenge, or focus required for skeet and trap. I'm just saying that, IMO, 45% to 50% of the total score allocated to those "mental/focus" games should be more than enough for skeet and trap games in an all-around competition. Obviously, you think it should be more than that. :) Difference of opinion. {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:25 pm 
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bopper wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
Gunsmokesupply wrote:
Here is the format for the World All Around shotgun championship.

INTERNATIONAL TRAP - 50 TARGETS
*AMERICAN TRAP (27-yard) - 100 TARGETS
INTERNATIONAL SKEET - 50 TARGETS
*AMERICAN SKEET - 100 TARGETS

ZZ BIRDS - 30 TARGETS
*SUPER SPORT - 100 TARGETS (INCLUDED WITH US OPEN)
*FITASC - 50 TARGETS (INCLUDED WITH US OPEN)

SEMI FINALS - TOP 10 SHOOT DOWN TO 5

FINALS - TOP 5 SHOOT FOR TITLE OF WORLD ALL AROUND SHOTGUN CHAMPION

Dave


If all targets count the same, then it looks like Skeet and Trap shooting account for nearly 2/3 of the total score.

So nearly 2/3 of the events shouldn't count for nearly 2/3 of the score in an "all around" championship?


Bopper, well stated!! All shotgun disciplines count in my opinion. What I find boring others find exciting and vice versa.
Word has it that whoever is helping bankroll this World All Around is a staunch ATA person. Keep in mind this is unconfirmed but I believe I read it when this was originally brought to the public's attention.

Doesn't matter, a great shot is a great shot and can shoot any clay target discipline as the results seem to indicate.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:29 pm 
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Looks like Will Hinton, Anthony Matarese, Cory Kruse, Gebben Miles and Doug Vine all have an opportunity to bump into the top 10 yet.....Looks like a sporting slug fest!

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Gunsmokesupply wrote:
Looks like Will Hinton, Anthony Matarese, Cory Kruse, Gebben Miles and Doug Vine all have an opportunity to bump into the top 10 yet.....Looks like a sporting slug fest!

Dave


Ah, but those sporting clays shooters can't concentrate long enough to beat those skeeters and trap shooters. :wink: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:08 pm 
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Ulysses wrote:
Gunsmokesupply wrote:
Looks like Will Hinton, Anthony Matarese, Cory Kruse, Gebben Miles and Doug Vine all have an opportunity to bump into the top 10 yet.....Looks like a sporting slug fest!

Dave


Ah, but those sporting clays shooters can't concentrate long enough to beat those skeeters and trap shooters. :wink: :wink:

If this is a dig at me, I never implied that. I think it's important to make sure it is tested, though.

And, while I don't know all the shooters in the world, I only recognize a small handful of shooters from other disciplines. That this was held concurrently with a major sporting clays tournament would tend the skew participation, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:26 pm 
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bopper wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
Gunsmokesupply wrote:
Looks like Will Hinton, Anthony Matarese, Cory Kruse, Gebben Miles and Doug Vine all have an opportunity to bump into the top 10 yet.....Looks like a sporting slug fest!

Dave


Ah, but those sporting clays shooters can't concentrate long enough to beat those skeeters and trap shooters. :wink: :wink:

If this is a dig at me, I never implied that. I think it's important to make sure it is tested, though.

And, while I don't know all the shooters in the world, I only recognize a small handful of shooters from other disciplines. That this was held concurrently with a major sporting clays tournament would tend the skew participation, I think.


Well, you are the one who mentioned the mental game and focus the longest and running 100-straight on the trap and skeet field when you wrote "It's a very much a mental game, who can maintain focus the longest and the best." unless someone hacked your computer and posted something without your knowledge.

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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Is that English Skeet or American skeet in addition to international skeet?

I say, we should test the international skeeters focus by having them shoot all 4 gauges like the US version. Then we will see who has the best ability to focus.

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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:02 pm 
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bopper wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
Gunsmokesupply wrote:
Looks like Will Hinton, Anthony Matarese, Cory Kruse, Gebben Miles and Doug Vine all have an opportunity to bump into the top 10 yet.....Looks like a sporting slug fest!

Dave


Ah, but those sporting clays shooters can't concentrate long enough to beat those skeeters and trap shooters. :wink: :wink:

If this is a dig at me, I never implied that. I think it's important to make sure it is tested, though.

And, while I don't know all the shooters in the world, I only recognize a small handful of shooters from other disciplines. That this was held concurrently with a major sporting clays tournament would tend the skew participation, I think.


Bopper,
Nothing of the kind. I'm in agreement with you.
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Rick Marshall Jr. made top 10 last I checked. He's got a pretty impressive trap resume.


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:10 pm 
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Is the live feed working for anyone?
Say's waiting for Christopher Claxton.....

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:24 pm 
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DERRICK MEIN 142 140 146 29 457
RICHARD FAULDS 140 145 142 27 454
ANTHONY MATARESE 134 143 139 29 445
CORY KRUSE 134 138 141 29 442
GEBBEN MILES 127 146 142 27 442
ABEL SPIRE 139 130 144 28 441
DOUG VINE 142 130 137 28 437
WILL HINTON 141 142 127 26 436
BILL MCGUIRE 130 138 140 26 434
BRAD KIDD


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Ulysses wrote:
bopper wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
Ah, but those sporting clays shooters can't concentrate long enough to beat those skeeters and trap shooters. :wink: :wink:

If this is a dig at me, I never implied that. I think it's important to make sure it is tested, though.

And, while I don't know all the shooters in the world, I only recognize a small handful of shooters from other disciplines. That this was held concurrently with a major sporting clays tournament would tend the skew participation, I think.


Well, you are the one who mentioned the mental game and focus the longest and running 100-straight on the trap and skeet field when you wrote "It's a very much a mental game, who can maintain focus the longest and the best." unless someone hacked your computer and posted something without your knowledge.

No, you said "...those sporting clays shooters can't concentrate long enough to beat those skeeters and trap shooters," with the insinuation that I made such an implication. That's false. I never said anything close to that. You wrongly made that inference as I would never come close to saying anything like that.

What I will say is that the skill of concentrating for 100 Skeet or Trap targets is different than concentrating for sporting clays targets. Not more or less difficult or impossible for one kind of shooter to do vs another. Just different and a requisite test for an all-around championship. Is that clear enough?


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Bopper, Actually I think you and Ulysses are closer in thought than both realize. And when it comes to that, who really cares?
Arguing who needs the most mental discipline to shoot each individual shotgun discipline is plain silly. It comes down to the man ( or woman) who breaks the most targets within the boundaries given. This chosen boundary is the World All Around Shotgun Championship and the rules and format were clearly chosen before anyone wrote their check to participate.


Last edited by Gunsmokesupply on Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:04 pm 
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tttttt


Last edited by Gunsmokesupply on Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:31 am 
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Well, it looks like the sporting clays shooters were able to concentrate long enough to clean house even with the format set up to favor the skeet/trap shooters. I'm not at all surprised. :) :)

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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:08 am 
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Trap was a major influence in the overall placement of the top shooters. The results indicate how difficult 27 yard trap and bunker trap are. I was surprised that Anthony did not do better in trap--a couple of years ago he would have made the US Olympic team if we had a spot. Fulds also did not finish on top, even though at one point he won a gold medal in doubles. Most of the sporting clay shooters did pretty well in Olympic skeet.


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 Post subject: Re: World All Around in Tucson
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:15 am 
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My personal opinion is that all the displinies represented should all be equal in the number of targets, maybe not Helices. This would make it a true championship. From experience, I think a sporting shooter has much more advantage than a skeet or trap shooter. Simply because the skeet and trap shooters are great at their games but a sporting shooter understands all types of presentations.

When I started shooting sporting I was already a very experienced trap and skeet shooter thus I did well from the start of my sporting career. I think being able to shoot both of these games well gave me an advantage over a person that shot only skeet or trap. Now, I am not knocking skeet and trap shooters, I am just making an observation base on experience.

Mike McAlpine




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