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 Post subject: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:58 pm
Posts: 102
I'm wondering when to use pull away vs. maintained lead.




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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:08 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 638
Pull away when have time to run with bird. Maintained on fast bird with short window or quick simo.


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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:01 am 
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There isn't a handbook for this so everyone has to work out their own interpretation.

Speaking for myself the only time I use pull away is on dropping incomers. On slow crossing stuff with minimal lead it's usually a gentle pull through and for almost everything else I rely on maintained.

And let's not forget there is the occasional need for spot and intercept shooting.

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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:02 am 
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Trickster wrote:
There isn't a handbook for this so everyone has to work out their own interpretation.


^^^^^^^

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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:00 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
Posts: 2729
Location: Houston, TX USA
If you analyze what you are seeing or will see, then some solutions become more obvious. I definitely use pull away on high arching birds no matter what angle and direction except straight out. They are usually slow enough to follow right on the target just up to the peak, and just when they peak and transition to down, I pull away for the shot. They are moving very slowly downward but still with the horizontal motion nearly intact. So the pull away is a slight diagonal off the target.

For me the solution for more level quartering and crossing birds is more like maintained lead.

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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:34 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3184
Interesting enough, Anthony goes into great detail in his recent video, about how to shoot a long, fast crosser. He mounts onto a space in front of the target, runs a maintained lead to match the targets speed, and then pulls away to the final lead.

So, the answer can be both of them for some targets.


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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:44 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5986
Life of Riley wrote:
I'm wondering when to use pull away vs. maintained lead.


When the target dictates I use one or the other.


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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:50 pm
Posts: 362
Maintained, always.

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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:05 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2380
Location: Attica, Mi
You ask a question no one can answer because everyone is different. You then want " precise and to the point " - how about whatever works for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm
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Location: Houston, Texas
I often choose methods based on where momentum takes my barrel after the shot in consideration of the 2nd bird. If transitions are easy, I naturally hold very close to break points and make very short moves whenever possible as I feel very relaxed and I prefer not to move the gun much. Tight windows and very fast crossers are taken with something close to a spot shot. Deceptively slow birds are usually taken with some form of pull-away. Droppers are usually taken with pull-away. High-spring teals I usually swing through on the way up. I mostly shoot maintained on the skeet field. Context is everything, however.

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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:48 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6531
Location: Mascoutah IL
You do not want this in your head when calling for a target so never think of it again. Focus hard on the target and your brain will figure out what method is best based on target presentation. It just takes practice and many different presentations to train your brain.


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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
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DEG wrote:
You do not want this in your head when calling for a target so never think of it again. Focus hard on the target and your brain will figure out what method is best based on target presentation. It just takes practice and many different presentations to train your brain.


^^^^^^^^^^

It is not easy.........to turn everything over to the subconscious, but think back when you were wing shooting, doves, quail, ducks, etc. you didn't think while the bird was in the air.......is this a pull away, maintained lead, etc? You moved the muzzle to the bird and your brain did the rest.....subconscious. But....now with all the hype, lessons, videos, squadmates coaching and comments, it can get confusing. It's called trust, and yes you will miss a few, but in the end, much less stressful IMO, and you can concentrate more on the tgt.


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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:32 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:58 pm
Posts: 102
bladesmith wrote:
You ask a question no one can answer because everyone is different. You then want " precise and to the point " - how about whatever works for you.


You are exactly right. I phrased the question wrong. It should have been "when do YOU use pull away vs. maintained lead?" This question everyone can answer. I've learned a lot in the responses so far.

What did they throw off the talahatchie bridge?


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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:28 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:25 pm
Posts: 7
A couple of shooting coaches that I have taken a number of lessons from use an angle approach. If the angle from the trap to you to your break point is less than 45 degrees pull away works great, if greater, then maintained lead. It has worked for me but everyone is a bit different.

Brad Kidd and David Randulovich have a video showing them shooting the same birds in their own way. These are high fast crossers so the angle piece is a wash. One uses maintained lead the other like Mule Driver commented on using Anthony's approach, pull away with maintained lead. Match the speed and pull away just before pulling the trigger. When they compared their shoots simotaniously on split screen the shots were identical with the amount of lead required.
Guess it comes down to practice and what is going to work for you....


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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:10 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6531
Location: Mascoutah IL
4th. down wrote:
DEG wrote:
You do not want this in your head when calling for a target so never think of it again. Focus hard on the target and your brain will figure out what method is best based on target presentation. It just takes practice and many different presentations to train your brain.


^^^^^^^^^^

It is not easy.........to turn everything over to the subconscious, but think back when you were wing shooting, doves, quail, ducks, etc. you didn't think while the bird was in the air.......is this a pull away, maintained lead, etc? You moved the muzzle to the bird and your brain did the rest.....subconscious. But....now with all the hype, lessons, videos, squadmates coaching and comments, it can get confusing. It's called trust, and yes you will miss a few, but in the end, much less stressful IMO, and you can concentrate more on the tgt.


Yes, it is not easy and for some people it is impossible. When their current thinking doesn't work, they seek out the next coach or video to help them think about something else.


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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:55 am 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm
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Location: Houston, Texas
It’s also possible to formulate a plan, including hold point, break point, visual hold, peak focus, and method, then visualize the shot, then clear your mind before calling pull. Then let your subconscious operate under those conditions. In fact, you can run a program to the extent that the program itself becomes automatic as well as what happens after calling for the bird.

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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:36 pm 
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While I agree that shooters often get in their own way, an important distinction to be made between wing shooting and sporting is that in wing shooting you don’t get the benefit of a show pair...

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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:48 pm 
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OP--go to a skeet field and learn what the leads look like w/ all the methods. Shoot 50 birds with each method. Until you learn , there's no way to let your subconscious do what you do not yet know.

Sorry , no short cuts.

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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:01 pm 
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^^^Bingo^^^

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 Post subject: Re: Be precise and to the point, which method and when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:11 pm 
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Run some lead down your barrel like *some* here have done and figure it out. Get a coach and make it happen for yourself.


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