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 Post subject: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:58 pm
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I have a browning cxs 30" barrels bought last september that I've put 2,750 rounds through. After ramping up my shooting the last two weeks, I've got a sore shoulder. 5 10, 220lbs middle aged guy. Saturday I shot 9 boxes, Sunday 4. According to the browning website my gun weighs 7lb. 12oz. I just spent more time than I care to admit reading old posts on this site about gun weight and balance. I've come to the conclusion that I need to add some weight to the butt stock. I'm looking for advice on how to do this, is it all just jimmy rigged or is there a standardized way of doing this? Other than gun weight and shell selection, are other options worth looking at? Gracoil, butt pad, gel pad in vest or shirt? Thanks for any tips. Finding that perfect clays gun is not easy.




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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:38 am 
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Same article, same answer: https://www.shotgunworld.com/shotguns/to ... art-1.html .

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:21 pm
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Simplest way to reduce recoil is lighter shot loads. I shoot 7 1/2 lb SxS guns with field stocks, don’t want to alter, & run them on 7/8 oz. Very light recoil, B&P Competition One or reloaded similar shells. Two 100 shot courses in a day no problem.

Modern O/U can be weighted easily. In the Stock, between the barrels or hanging from the barrel. Problem is weighting without ruining balance. Last year bought a used Beretta 391 20 Sporting. Normally a 6 1/2 gun. Felt heavy, at home on the scale 7 lbs & butt heavy. Pulled the plate off and found 8 oz fishing sinker inside. Removed back to factory 6 1/2. Wanted heavier.

Added a Briley Hollow Magazine cap & started weighting cap and stock with lead . Lot of shooting trial and error, ended up 7 1/2 lbs balance that suits me and now one of my favorites.

Don’t know of any formula other than adding in both places gradually keeping in mind desired total Gun weight & load you want to use. O/U like yours 8 lbs with light Shot shell ought to be good for long run shooting. 4 oz making a noticeable difference, would not want it all in the butt. Shooters with 9 lb + competition guns run 1 1/8 oz For long strings. They also have well fitted larger stocks than normal field guns.

This all opinion shooters feel recoil different and have different ability to shoot high volume

Bass


Last edited by Bass3 on Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:47 am 
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Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
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My vest had a browning pad in the shoulder and I think it helps a bit.

I tried a k80 with the ISIS system once and it was crazy soft. Tough to resell a gun with that on if (at least I suspect) but truly effective.

But the biggest help I’ve found is to use 1oz loads. Truth is 1oz @ 1200 is all you need to get it done. If you’re shooting 1 1/8oz loads your shoulder will love the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:00 am 
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TOM ROSTER Summary

Quote:
To sum up both parts of this treatise on recoil, recoil is always a negative to everyone’s shotgun shooting. Don’t let it destroy or reduce your shooting potential. To reduce the effects of recoil, do one or more of the following things:

1) Shoot the lightest, slowest shotshell load that you know can get the job done; gauge is irrelevant.

2) Shoot the heaviest gun that you can handle and swing well; again gauge is irrelevant.

3) If you are especially sensitive to recoil or are light-bodied, strongly consider shooting gas-operated autoloading shotgun actions.

4) Regardless of the shotgun type you shoot, be certain it possesses a good cushiony recoil pad. If you are especially sensitive, avoid side-by-sides and shoot some type of hydracoil or spring-type stock.

5) Make sure your shotgun stock has a large butt area and that the comb is rounded and not sharp in contour.

6) Keep connected to your shotgun. It is important to keep your face tight on the comb and to allow no space between the gun butt and your shoulder as you slap the trigger. This prevents the gun from developing momentum to bite your face or kick your shoulder.

7) Keep a firm grip on your shotgun because much recoil force can be absorbed in your hands preventing it from ever getting to your shoulder or face.

No one can tell you that you aren’t feeling nasty recoil if in fact you are. So, if you are a recoil-sensitive individual – for whatever reason – do everything possible to lessen the recoil – real and perceived – in your shotgun shooting. This, if you care about shooting the best you possibly can.

Tom Roster

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:56 am 
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Check into this you will like it. https://www.falconstrikeusa.com/
Piece of PEX 1/2" tubing in the hole behind the Butt pad, filled with lead shot and hot glue the ends with electrical tape over the hot glue, Make it the exact size to fill the hole in your butt stock to the end, I have a 725 and its approx 4 inch piece filled with led shot, falcon strike and lead shot made huge difference.
https://www.falconstrikeusa.com/

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
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Two comments about the above advice, both complimentary. #6 and 7 in the quoted article above are extremely important yet seldom mentioned. A firm mount keeps the gun from building up speed toward your body. If the gun is held very tightly in your shoulder and cheek pockets it can shove you, but not ram you. The ramming at speed is what causes the tissue damage. Holding the gun loosely or away from the body allows it to build up speed (acquire momentum) that will hurt you when your body has to slow it down. Similarly for the firm grip. Both keep the gun from developing momentum.

Furthermore, I know of no reason in 12 ga to shoot more than 1 oz at 1180 fps. I’m a fairly small guy and have never had that hurt me.

The Kick-Eze pad rocks without having any mechanical complexity. Just elastomeric cushion.

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Last edited by rpenmanparker on Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:21 pm
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Not hard to get 4 oz In the buttstock O/U, 4 on the barrel more difficult. Best solution I have seen are brass fillers that clamp between the barrels under the forearm. Don’t know what they weigh. Probably don't need much, 8 lb O/U 1 oz 1180 loads very pleasant combination.

Bass


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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:18 am 
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I have added weight to the butt stock of several guns. I have always ended up taking the weight back out after a shooting session or 2. I shoot a lot of soft mount and the weight mess up how the gun feels. I generally use lead shot in a copper tube that fits in the stock hole. I have several of these weights in a drawer now, but not in a gun. I went to lighter/slower loads instead. Unless you add a pound or so adding weight does not seem to help that much.

Adding weight is cheap and easy and there is no reason not to try it before you do anything else. You might like it. I generally did not but I may be an exception...


Last edited by Bill M. on Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:16 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:

Tried to open this both here and on the other thread and keep getting a “404 Not Found” error message. ??


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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:21 pm 
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The Roster recoil articles are on Shotgun Life.

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:31 pm 
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My only credentials are that I have shot over 250,000 shotguns shells at targets PLUS birds.

I do not like a gun of less then 8 lbs 4 ozs. I have reduced my loads and fps to 1 oz and 1200 fps MAX. I really prefer 1160 fps.

You need to decide how you will deal w/ these brutal facts. You cannot change the physics. Heavier gun , lighter shells or both.

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
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sera wrote:
My only credentials are that I have shot over 250,000 shotguns shells at targets PLUS birds.

I do not like a gun of less then 8 lbs 4 ozs. I have reduced my loads and fps to 1 oz and 1200 fps MAX. I really prefer 1160 fps.

You need to decide how you will deal w/ these brutal facts. You cannot change the physics. Heavier gun , lighter shells or both.

I agree completely.

I would also strongly recommend a butt device to further reduce felt recoil. Whether mechanical or elastomeric, they are a valuable way to moderate felt recoil. From a physics point of view part of their effect really quite similar to the effect of gas system in a gas semi-automatic shotgun, slowing down the application of the energy to the body and spreading it out over time, but with added functionality to absorb and dissipate part of the recoil energy.

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:54 pm 
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rpenmanparker wrote:
I would also strongly recommend a butt device to further reduce felt recoil. Whether mechanical or elastomeric, they are a valuable way to moderate felt recoil. From a physics point of view part of their effect really quite similar to the effect of gas system in a gas semi-automatic shotgun, slowing down the application of the energy to the body and spreading it out over time, but with added functionality to absorb and dissipate part of the recoil energy.

And this is from your vast wealth of experience?
Many shooters do not appreciate those features that you are suggesting.

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:59 pm 
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What Sera said... 1200 & 1oz is amazing. And Cleaver T2s are hard to beat.

I have a mx2000 with an ISIS and a Browning 525 with a Gshock and both work for reducing boomers. However, when I eventually get a custom stock for the mx2000 there will be no pogo stick attached.

DL


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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
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The main ingredients for recoil redux are to increase the gun weigh, decrease the payload weight of the shell, decrease the speed of the shell, or shoot a semi-automatic.

Some gunsmith believe that mercury recoil reducers are the best when adding weight. I don't know the science behind that, but some believe that the movement of the mercury helps more. I don't know if that is true or not.

Five years ago, I had my gunsmith add a mercury recoil reducer to my Browning Cynergy 3 1/2 Waterfowl O/U, as the barrels are heavy and the synthetic stock very light. The recoil redux was substancial, and very welcome -- and it balanced out the gun nicely. BTW, I never shoot 3 1/2 inch shells. Most 2 3/4 inch HeviShot in this gun, some 3 inch steel.

C&H Mercury Recoil Reciders are nice and clean -- and many times easy to install. I've used them prior in other guns that I needed to add weight to the stock or in an extended forend.

http://www.mercuryrecoil.com/


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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:17 pm 
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rpenmanparker wrote:
Two comments about the above advice, both complimentary. #6 and 7 in the quoted article above are extremely important yet seldom mentioned. A firm mount keeps the gun from building up speed toward your body. If the gun is held very tightly in your shoulder and cheek pockets it can shove you, but not ram you. The ramming at speed is what causes the tissue damage. Holding the gun loosely or away from the body allows it to build up speed (acquire momentum) that will hurt you when your body has to slow it down. Similarly for the firm grip. Both keep the gun from developing momentum.
.


I agree and these are two things that I may have been doing wrong. My nose/face is completely fine, I've never ever noticed any recoil there with any gun I've shot. It's my shoulder that is sore, and when I practice my mount I'll try and be cognizant that the pad is firm in the shoulder pocket. One thing that I've seen conflicting info on are exactly #6 and #7. Some professional SC shooters have said they hold the gun with a very relaxed grip. Anthony said he holds the fore end so loose his fingers almost fall off it. Wendell says he wants no tension at all in his grip and his arms. Then I've seen all those pics of olympic skeet and trap shooters who have their face mashed onto the buttstock and a firm grip on the gun. Horses for courses, I'll have to find what works for me. Thanks everyone for the tips.


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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:38 pm 
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I am a newbie. I am OLD. I am senstive to recoil due to arthritis.

I recently put a ten dollar Allen & Co slip-on recoil pad on a REM 870 12 gauge. They are known to Kick some. I shoot one ounce shells, most under 1200 fps. I have no recoil issues when shooting up to 50 shots a day.

It may be that, when I start shooting more, my cheap and simple solution won't be enough. If so, I'll do additional tweaking.

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B003C6VTZ ... UTF8&psc=1


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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
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Location: Houston, TX USA
Curly N wrote:
rpenmanparker wrote:
I would also strongly recommend a butt device to further reduce felt recoil. Whether mechanical or elastomeric, they are a valuable way to moderate felt recoil. From a physics point of view part of their effect really quite similar to the effect of gas system in a gas semi-automatic shotgun, slowing down the application of the energy to the body and spreading it out over time, but with added functionality to absorb and dissipate part of the recoil energy.

And this is from your vast wealth of experience?
Many shooters do not appreciate those features that you are suggesting.


In the quoted post I had no intention of dictating how anyone else chooses to shoot. If you reread my post, you will see I was only recommending, not dictating. Just trying to help other folks out. Of course no one should equip their gun in a way that they do not like. I certainly wouldn't.

But please don't suggest that my analysis is incorrect. Yes, my statement comes from my vast wealth of experience...in material and physical science. That is what I have a lifetime of experience in and what the technologies that many find helpful for reducing recoil are based on. And I have made it my business to learn about those technologies specific to guns. That is how I am. I think about stuff and I learn about stuff that I am interested in. And I don't take forever to do it.

The guy at Remington who designed the V3 gas system may have been a long-experienced shotgunner or not. I don't know. But it doesn't matter, because it was not a shooting problem, it was an engineering problem. So when they hired him, my bet is they weren't interested in whether he could shoot, but rather only whether he understood the science and technology.

Actually, I can't complain when someone challenges my statements on accuracy and I am found to be wrong. But I do find it annoying when folks challenge my statements based on their beliefs about the right to have an opinion even when the information I provided is completely correct.

Whew, I'm glad you brought that up. I needed to get that off my chest. {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: recoil reduction/adding weight
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:53 pm 
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Robert,

Right, wrong or indifferent...........you sound like a politician.

I used to feel bad for you because you are new to sporting clays and were getting hammered pretty good........not anymore.

Glad you gave me the opportunity to get that off my chest. Whew!! :mrgreen:



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