ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:54 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:47 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:16 pm
Posts: 383
Location: Escanaba, MI
We're throwing a double rabbit at my club. 1 on ground, one loops up anywhere from 6-20ft depending on how we set it (both from same machine). My question is...if you shoot the grounder first and the looper hits the ground, can it still be taken if it's still rolling? And what is the ruling if it breaks upon impacting the ground (I'm assuming it's lost then). Thanks!




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:01 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 3:37 pm
Posts: 19476
DooFighter wrote:
We're throwing a double rabbit at my club. 1 on ground, one loops up anywhere from 6-20ft depending on how we set it (both from same machine). My question is...if you shoot the grounder first and the looper hits the ground, can it still be taken if it's still rolling? And what is the ruling if it breaks upon impacting the ground (I'm assuming it's lost then). Thanks!


It seems that would be an issue that the club should decide on beforehand and make the rule clear BEFORE the tournament is held. In fact, it would be a good idea to post the "Ground Rules" at that station so that everyone shooting the station knows how it is to be scored before they shoot it.

_________________
Please post For Sale items in the proper Classified section.

Semi-Auto Classifieds is ONLY for Complete Semi-Auto shotguns.
Over/Under Classifieds is ONLY for Complete O/U shotguns.
Items other than a complete shotgun go in OTHER Classifieds.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:13 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2744
Location: Central Maine
My opinion is that once the airborne rabbit gets to the ground unbroken, it is lost no matter if it rolls visibly for 50 yards after or breaks from ground contact.

It would probably be helpful if the club had a posting at the station explaining that. From a fairness standpoint, I don't think any other approach makes sense. If the ground breaks it on impact, it doesn't warrant a reshoot because it wasn't ever intended to be shot on the ground. by bad luck, one shooter could have all of them break on impact and the next shooter have them all roll out.

Not a big deal for casual fun shoot clays but for a competition set, it would need to be clear what the clubs intent was and the outcome if the flying rabbit made it to the ground before the shooter fired.

This subject has come up here before and i cannot remember if any of the rules gurus like Dr Mike weighed in. I believe this is a discretionary situation the target setter would be in control of.

_________________
CG Summit Sporting
Beretta A400 Excel "Black" Cole Special
Browning Citori Crossover Target

NSCA 602398


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:45 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:16 pm
Posts: 383
Location: Escanaba, MI
I see. Thanks guys!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:02 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:51 am
Posts: 1152
Posted by the station, I've seen if a rabbit target goes beyond a point (marked), it's a lost target if not broken before....This case if it hits the ground..If so marked...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:33 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:27 am
Posts: 8185
Location: Silicon Valley
I do not recall it being spelled out anywhere in the rules, but general consensus among FITASC refs I've had this discussion with is as follows: Unless it's specified by the shoot host that the rabbit has to be taken before it hits the ground, a rabbit on the ground and still upright is a legal target.

_________________
Jack
NSCA #617422

When the mind is right, the body will find a way...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:41 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:20 pm
Posts: 532
Location: Mississippi
JacksBack wrote:
I do not recall it being spelled out anywhere in the rules, but general consensus among FITASC refs I've had this discussion with is as follows: Unless it's specified by the shoot host that the rabbit has to be taken before it hits the ground, a rabbit on the ground and still upright is a legal target.


That’s how I’ve seen it. But, the ref should state that in advance. The target setter has to have clear instruction to the refs.

Typically, if the ref says it can be taken in the air or on the ground, then, if it hits the ground and breaks, it is a no bird. Obviously, when that’s the case, the club wants to minimize no birds so the trajectory is flatter than when the ref says that it has to be taken in the air.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:57 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:36 pm
Posts: 1658
Location: Northeast Ohio
A station in a local tournament once had a rabbit target which ran along a mat on the ground like many do, but then, went up an Evil Kenieval type ramp and was launched into the air.

The puller/scorer told each squad before the show pairs, and before the first shooter, that the rabbit could not be taken before the ramp. Simple common sense. It was intended to be taken in the air. I'll bet she got tired of the announcement by the end of the day.

It was a very fun station by the way. A friend had trouble with the rabbit. I suggested he think of it as a chandele, which it basically did become after becoming airborne. It took me the first miss to adjust to that myself, but I killed the last two of the three.

I've never seen a trampoline target, but I imagine it's a similar situation. With likely more inconsistency and variety of trajectory off or the trampoline than the ramp provided.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:29 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 3:16 pm
Posts: 3746
Location: Southeast MI
If I had such a target on a stand or parcour and it wasn’t already spelled out, I’d immediately get ahold of the target setter to find out what the plan was.

Without guidance, I’d say that if it was airborne off the trap, then it has to be taken in the air. If it rolls before going airborne, anything goes before it flops over and dies of natural causes. “Anything goes” targets are great fun, but are the worst sort in competitions - far too much variation, complaining, hard feelings.

_________________
Current NSSA/NSCA Rule book: http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/rule-book/
Sporting Clays, 5-Stand, Super Sporting & Parcours de Chasse (FITASC)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:24 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:44 pm
Posts: 182
Location: Lowcountry of SC
Grouse Gunner,

We have a trampoline target set at our club. Usually the targets evolve as looping crossers of different heights, looping quartering (either away or at you), or some type of springing teal. It is shot as A single, B single, and AB true. The clays launch about 2-5 feet off the ground with good velocity, fly about 30-50 feet and hit the trampoline. They are about as consistent as most other stations. Our setter keeps them from being high in the wind because they are showing dome or belly. It is a fun set.

JB


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:41 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2744
Location: Central Maine
DrMike wrote:
If I had such a target on a stand or parcour and it wasn’t already spelled out, I’d immediately get ahold of the target setter to find out what the plan was.

Without guidance, I’d say that if it was airborne off the trap, then it has to be taken in the air. If it rolls before going airborne, anything goes before it flops over and dies of natural causes. “Anything goes” targets are great fun, but are the worst sort in competitions - far too much variation, complaining, hard feelings.


I have not encountered a pair shooting sporting where this would come into play but as long as the rules of engagement are clearly spelled out, at least in my mind it should be no problem. I think it is cleanest if the option of shooting it when it returns to the ground is eliminated. If it isn't that way then so be it.

Though I am not anti SYO event and shoot many of them cause that is what is offered, I would not want a pair thrown like this unless the event was run using dedicated scorers and a station like this would require the scorer judge to be very experienced and a great communicator and one that would not put up with the whining that could definitely be coming his / her way.

Now do this type of thing when it is just casual none competition stuff, shoot it all kinds of ways and have some fun.

_________________
CG Summit Sporting
Beretta A400 Excel "Black" Cole Special
Browning Citori Crossover Target

NSCA 602398


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:15 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:38 pm
Posts: 7871
Location: Northwest Pa.
The best way to fix that is don't set stupid targets like that. :lol:

_________________
Terry



Gun and Shell Sponsor / My Wife
Polaris Ranger
Krieghoff K80 Plantation Grade
Muller Chokes
Brain Chokes
Member of the NRA

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:20 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm
Posts: 2744
Location: Central Maine
KRIEGHOFFK80 wrote:
The best way to fix that is don't set stupid targets like that. :lol:


Yes. And I don’t think many target setters would. Not much good comes from it {hs#

_________________
CG Summit Sporting
Beretta A400 Excel "Black" Cole Special
Browning Citori Crossover Target

NSCA 602398


Last edited by dpe2002 on Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:31 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22951
A lot will also depend on how high; I saw one pair where the rabbit was screaming about 3-4' off the ground off the trap to clear an obstacle before hitting the ground and rolling; the only way to safely and quickly hit it was on the ground. IF the intent was to have it attempted in the air, then something like a few hay bales where it encounters the ground to prevent shots at it on the ground would suffice with no trapper explanation necessary.

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:42 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:40 pm
Posts: 741
In a shoot I always get clarification if a rabbit is thrown in the air is it scored as a “bird” or as a rabbit. Based on that question, either answer reverts to the rule book. Obviously, if the club has other requirements then they would apply as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:53 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:03 am
Posts: 642
Location: Central Coast of CA
ALL rabbits start in the air - to one degree or another. None have ground contact immediately when leaving the arm.

As stated several times, the rule the club wants to use should be stated clearly on the station.

_________________
**************************************************
http://www.boaring.com
__________________________________________________
May the wind blow softly on your face during all your travels and never blow so hard as to rip your hair out in big clumps.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:57 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:15 pm
Posts: 116
Location: Toronto, Ohio
Stupid targets cause you can’t saddle up and ride them. You just have to shoot them. And it takes you out of your comfort zone!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:00 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:58 pm
Posts: 102
JacksBack wrote:
I do not recall it being spelled out anywhere in the rules, but general consensus among FITASC refs I've had this discussion with is as follows: Unless it's specified by the shoot host that the rabbit has to be taken before it hits the ground, a rabbit on the ground and still upright is a legal target.



EXACTLY RIGHT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:00 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 638
Had an incoming rabbit at a shoot this weekend and the trappper let us know it had to be shot before it passed an orange cone or it was out of play.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Looping rabbit target rule question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:41 am 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 7:19 pm
Posts: 1935
Location: Indian Head Country Wisconsin
oneounceload wrote:
A lot will also depend on how high; I saw one pair where the rabbit was screaming about 3-4' off the ground off the trap to clear an obstacle before hitting the ground and rolling; the only way to safely and quickly hit it was on the ground. IF the intent was to have it attempted in the air, then something like a few hay bales where it encounters the ground to prevent shots at it on the ground would suffice with no trapper explanation necessary.



This makes a lot of sense. Or even a sheet of plywood resting against a couple of t posts with a few cinder blocks behind it. That way once the rabbit disappears it will be smashed behind the plywood hitting the cinder blocks with no possibility of further engagement by the shooter.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: avogunner, Bing [Bot], Dmc57, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Sans Peur, txlefty, USARich


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice