ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:06 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:08 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:58 pm
Posts: 97
I know MMS is very well known after Mr. Bidwell won many titles with it. I was gonna get the book, but reviews stated that little is said about the actual method in it. Just the words "move mount shoot" seem to me to point to the Churchill instinctual method. I read in a different book, I believe Positive Shooting, that it is essentially maintained lead. Do people still use this method, and does anyone have a good description of what it actually is? Thanks in advance.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:21 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:51 am
Posts: 76
It's also known as move, mount, miss...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:45 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:27 am
Posts: 8166
Location: Silicon Valley
It is just what it sounds like: the main mantra was, move your gun into the lead as you're mounting, so it's also at the right lead when it hits your face; and then as soon as it hits your face, pull the trigger. In this you avoided riding the target, thinking too much, or checking gap, all of which are good things. The bad is as targets got longer, faster, edgier and more technical, they needed to be engaged more accurately and MMS doesn't hold up very well. I don't know anybody at the top of the game who professes to use it today.

_________________
Jack
NSCA #617422

When the mind is right, the body will find a way...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:52 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5585
Shoot FITASC and you will need to learn move,mount and shoot real quick.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:45 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:09 pm
Posts: 5372
Location: Omaha, NE
I'll sometimes use this on a loooong, high incomer that drops in close to the stand, to keep me from riding the target and barrel checking.

_________________
Jim

Eye on the rock, head on the stock.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:28 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 7:55 am
Posts: 751
it's used for as mentioned Fitasc because that's the game, and then on really long birds when you have a long delay with the flight and then the shot, this keeps you from riding the bird which then results in misses.

_________________
Muller Mafia
NSCA#620844
"regarde le putain d'oiseau"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:13 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5585
Read the book Move, Mount and Shoot by John Bidwell. https://books.google.com/books/about/Mo ... iMOwAACAAJ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:34 pm 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:28 am
Posts: 369
Location: Australia
I believe it is useful and has merit on about 5% of targets on an average course .
The other 95% you had better have something else up your sleeve .

_________________
F3 + R93 = : )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:13 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 771
It’s a technique that you perfect in college through hands on practice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:17 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 13422
The folks who coined the term refer to Robert Churchill. Churchill has been quoted as saying he shot 150 targets A DAY to stay tuned up.

Practice makes you lucky at tournament time.

_________________
Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:35 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3177
In the late 80s, I took a 2 day lesson from A.J. "Smoker" Smith and John Bidwell down at Moore and Moore and the old Raahauges (then in Riverside). One day you had AJ in the morning, and Biddy in the afternoon. The next day was switched.

At that time, Biddy's "move, mount, and shot" was way above my head. AJ's stuff was of real value.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:00 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:19 pm
Posts: 2483
Location: Tampa Florida
MMS is often mistakenly to said to use maintained lead, it may, but all the methods can be used in move mount shoot. Not just maintained lead.

If MMS goes over your head the coach must not have explained it very well, as it is pretty simple.

Roger

_________________
Roger Gascoigne
AMICSI, CPSA Certified Coach
NSSA Level 1 Skeet Instructor
Phone 813-907-7340
Check out our E-books on Amazon here
http://www.rogergascoigneshootingcoach.com/books.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:43 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3177
Roger Gascoigne wrote:

If MMS goes over your head the coach must not have explained it very well, as it is pretty simple.

Roger


The instructor was John Bidwell himself.

The problem was centered around me being a neophyte shooter and did everything swing through at that time, and Biddy being a "watch me shoot this" kind of an instructor. Plus, "here, buy my book" -- which I did do. And still have.

In addition, AJ was easier to understand, and just was more fun. Biddy seemed to always be nervous and rushed.

I needed to be at least 5 or 10 years further down the road to have appreciated what Biddy was saying and doing.

There wasn't the instructional information or opportunities around in those days here in the U.S.. I traveled nearly 500 miles each way to take those lessons.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:05 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:48 pm
Posts: 331
What do we learn here?

A famous shooter is not necessarily a good coach

Avoid an instructor who takes a gun to a lesson and says watch this

You have to choose a coach who can teach better than they shoot

If you lack skills, you will get less out of someone who cannot come down to your level

Jack described the MMS in a paragraph that most should understand, even me

Just my thoughts


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:27 am 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 7:19 pm
Posts: 1901
Location: Indian Head Country Wisconsin
What is M, M, S? Hunting! Ok. This is a clays thread, but if you shoot real actual flying birds that don’t fall to the ground there’s no show birds, no premounted gun, and its move, mount, and shoot. And sometimes it’s step, move, mount, and shoot to bring your body into a better neutral stance relative to the flush of the bird so you are not shooting off your off foot or off balance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:32 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:08 pm
Posts: 2588
Different instructors have different styles. A lot can be learned from an instructor by watching them demonstrate a technique he is trying to teach you to use. Some students learn aurally, some visually. Dismissing the legitimacy of an instructor because he occasionally shows you what he is describing may be throwing out the baby with the bath water.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:04 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 13422
The thing I hate the most is a coach/instructor taking me to the hardest station on the course and "teaching" me how to shoot a 60 yd curling quartering bird.

What I want is some to tell me why I am missing a 30 yd nothing-burger of a shot. What am I not seeing , etc.

I --for one--won't be taking any more "Let's shoot the longest bird out here " lesson.

I took a lesson in Houston recently where there was a 50+ yd bird off a tower , w/ a nasty line. I hit it 2 of 15 tries. The "coach" then missed it 12 straight times and gave up. Not paying for that crap ever again.

You can shoot any method off a lowgun/Fitasc hold. Anyone who says otherwise is LYING. And remember , Churchill ,who touted this method, shot 150 targets a DAY to keep sharp.

_________________
Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:21 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:34 am
Posts: 184
John Woolley did a video with Sunrise Productions called Be Your Own Coach. He teaches the Move, Mount and Shoot technique. He explains it in great detail in this video. I don't use that method but I was curious and I got some other good points on gun fit, stance and pre shot routine from this video.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:37 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3177
Browning Citori Guy wrote:
What do we learn here?

A famous shooter is not necessarily a good coach

Avoid an instructor who takes a gun to a lesson and says watch this

You have to choose a coach who can teach better than they shoot



Be careful painting with too wide of a brush. AJ Smith was a really famous shooter, who brought his gun and shot during the lesson, and he was a fantastic instructor. Remember, this was at a place and time where everything was unknown and much different than shooting instruction is today -- for both the student and the instructor.

Quote:
If you lack skills, you will get less out of someone who cannot come down to your level


During this period of time, so many of us didn't know what we didn't know. It really wasn't about lack of skill, but rather lack of good information and knowledge.

Quote:
Jack described the MMS in a paragraph that most should understand, even me

Just my thoughts


Yes he did.

It's a method I like for very short window speedy crossers, or something you need to take much quicker than you like in order to get to the second bird of a true pair in time.

Again, keep in mind the time and place. Late 1980s, and everything was new to all of us.


Last edited by Mule Driver on Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:56 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3177
sera wrote:
The thing I hate the most is a coach/instructor taking me to the hardest station on the course and "teaching" me how to shoot a 60 yd curling quartering bird.

What I want is some to tell me why I am missing a 30 yd nothing-burger of a shot. What am I not seeing , etc.

I --for one--won't be taking any more "Let's shoot the longest bird out here " lesson.

I took a lesson in Houston recently where there was a 50+ yd bird off a tower , w/ a nasty line. I hit it 2 of 15 tries. The "coach" then missed it 12 straight times and gave up. Not paying for that crap ever again.

You can shoot any method off a lowgun/Fitasc hold. Anyone who says otherwise is LYING. And remember , Churchill ,who touted this method, shot 150 targets a DAY to keep sharp.


You make excellent points, Sera.

One of the things I believe a good coach does is that sometime prior to the lesson, contacts his student and finds out if there's any articular thing they need/want to work on.

I recently took two half day lessons from Marty Fischer, at different venues. About a week before the first day, he called me and we established that I needed to work on longish dropping teal when presented as a true pair, and you were forced to take that teal as the second bird, well into it's drop (at least 1/2 way down).

Marty had that set up for me at both venues. And we made some major progress on a long time problem target for me.

I'd gladly pay his fee anytime.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: barrowsr, bbush, BigDeeeeeeee, Bing [Bot], Bird Guide, BlwnGazkit, cheesy1, Chris Ferres, claybuster145*, cookoff013, Daddybro, Diddle, dlh711, dmit, dpe2002, ebcjr, fbref75, FL-Shooter, gaeta004, garrisonjoe, glockky, gn4hir, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], HenryPeter, Jaspo01, JerseyJim, johnnie g, krimmie, Markepilot, MartyFischer, McFarmer, myshootinstinks, NCMikeR, noweil, oneounceload, papillonkirby, pitandremington, raymond525, reo, Researcher01, RMc, Rooster booster, s***p, Safetyfast, sera, shacked, Specklebelly, Starstorm, Tidefanatic, trackerboy, valencman, xsshooter, zxcvbnm


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice