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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:02 am 
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A really good coach also first determines YOUR learning style/methodology and adapts his technique to that style of learning.



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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:06 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3177
oneounceload wrote:
A really good coach also first determines YOUR learning style/methodology and adapts his technique to that style of learning.


Agree.

That's a very important component on the list of things that makes for a great instructor.


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:15 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
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An instructor has a set of physical techniques to impart to you, usually conveying these by example. For this reason an instructor tends to need to be technically better than his/her students.
A coach will focus more upon what you, personally need to move your ability / performance on.
Instructor and coach are very different. A coach usually has an ongoing relationship with the student/player.


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:08 pm 
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Doesn't Wendell and all of his students shoot MMS? They seem to avoid calling it that but really looks like what they do.

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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:57 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:32 am
Posts: 1298
It is, but he’s added a thing or two over the years. One of the things he taught me, that I personally benefitted the most from, is to not finish the mount until the correct gap has been established. Too many shooters are in a big hurry to get the gun into their shoulder and then end up chasing the target. Wendell has you out of the gun until you have hit your gap, then finish the mount and fire. Once I was comfortable with that process, I found it easier to visually control the target. I’m not rushed, my hands move in sinc with the target and I’m more accurate inserting the gun into the correct space on the target’s line.


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:31 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm
Posts: 3177
Tom,

Can you describe how you guys would take a dropping teal, about half way down when it's accelerating using Wendell's method that you speak of?

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:34 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:32 am
Posts: 1298
:lol: How I do that one? Or Wendell? I won't speak for Wendell or David on this.

You have to understand that I've known Dan Carlisle for almost 40 years and he had a tremendous influence on how I approached shooting. On dropping targets, "I" insert a bit short of the gap, run with it until I'm confident of the line, then pull away and fire...... If given a large enough window. But honestly, every one of the top competitors knows subconciously whether their gap if perfect, short, or too much. And they adjust accordingly before they fire. For me to hit my gaps perfectly during a match, that was a magic day that didn't happen often.

My opinion will always be, there is more than one way to consistently break a target. I find it easier to shoot droppers by finishing with a bump and run. Just as I find it easier to kill a target coming out of a transition, versus shooting it in the middle of the transition. If the target setter forces me to shoot the target before the transition, then I'm more MMS. Or even a collapsed lead on stupidly set short windows. I've learned to dislike a lazy target setter, probably why I've shot more registered Fitasc than Sporting over the last 20 years.


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:40 pm 
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Not sure if I am breaking the rules but if anyone wants the book, I will send you my copy for $10 shipped, media mail, within the U.S. Like new condition. PM me.

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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:06 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2310
Location: Attica, Mi
Isn't Churchill teaching a pull away method of shooting where as Bidwell is teaching a way to mount the gun ? Bidwell has you mounting the gun as you move it with the bird. I have both his tapes and in the first he doesn't say anything about leads. In the second he says to delay the shot long enough to make sure your line and lead is correct. I don't remembering him saying to use a maintain lead or pull away. Anyways, either you shoot a gun mounted style, or gun down where everyone is doing some sort of MMS, unless you mount, then chase after the bird. Whether you mount to the bird on the back side of it, on the center, on the front side, and then pull away, or in front of the bird the proper lead, you're still doing a basic MM and Shoot. Because I don't shoot gun up, I guess I do the MMS every time.

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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:52 pm 
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I'm guessing that way over half of Fitasc shooters shoot mount (1st) move and shoot. And really there's nothing wrong w/ this. We score our game by targets broken , not style points.

I'm not sure what Churchill "taught" as he did so many contradictory things. BUT what he did do was practice continuously . And the oldest rule of shooting is the more you practice the luckier you'll be on tournament day.

All "methods" have numerous sub-methods. Again OK. No one loses style points by using a raggedty a$$ method when the target breaks. To get good , one has to learn all the methods and when to use them (and when to junk them).

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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:31 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
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Very interesting thread. Particularly in the context of a Husthwaite video I just watched yesterday. He briefly mentions MMS as an alias for maintained lead and goes on to describe it as a poor option. He talks specifically about how the methods he uses allow one to better stay in form during lulls in shooting vs having to put a LOT of ammo through the gun trying to be a MMS shooter. I am somewhat paraphrasing and could be misstating something but this was my understanding. In any event the video coupled with this thread is pretty interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:02 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:49 pm
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Location: Boston Area
I struggled with MMS , but it started coming together for me. What I learned is to :
1. Hold low gun ( not very low)
2. Eyes only on the target
3. Follow target with my nose (that way my face is in the right place) when I .....
4.Mount and shoot into the lead ( no riding the bird)

It works for me on most all targets that are in the air. High Birds, , Quartering and Crossers. Now if I could learn to hit the Wabbit and that nasty Teal..... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:19 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Central NH
JerseyJim wrote:
I struggled with MMS , but it started coming together for me. What I learned is to :
1. Hold low gun ( not very low)
2. Eyes only on the target
3. Follow target with my nose (that way my face is in the right place) when I .....
4.Mount and shoot into the lead ( no riding the bird)

It works for me on most all targets that are in the air. High Birds, , Quartering and Crossers. Now if I could learn to hit the Wabbit and that nasty Teal..... :wink:

Interesting that you mention wabbits. Consider the contour of the ground. I had a lesson with DR last Saturday, and that exact thing was part of the lesson. Some rabbits are actually rising, or falling, targets.


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:50 pm
Posts: 359
I've heard many folks shoot rabbits with a rifle approach. Not my style, but maybe?

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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:55 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22673
painter* wrote:
JerseyJim wrote:
I struggled with MMS , but it started coming together for me. What I learned is to :
1. Hold low gun ( not very low)
2. Eyes only on the target
3. Follow target with my nose (that way my face is in the right place) when I .....
4.Mount and shoot into the lead ( no riding the bird)

It works for me on most all targets that are in the air. High Birds, , Quartering and Crossers. Now if I could learn to hit the Wabbit and that nasty Teal..... :wink:

Interesting that you mention wabbits. Consider the contour of the ground. I had a lesson with DR last Saturday, and that exact thing was part of the lesson. Some rabbits are actually rising, or falling, targets.

And some just bounce at the most impractical moment.....................

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The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:38 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Central NH
oneounceload wrote:
painter* wrote:
JerseyJim wrote:
I struggled with MMS , but it started coming together for me. What I learned is to :
1. Hold low gun ( not very low)
2. Eyes only on the target
3. Follow target with my nose (that way my face is in the right place) when I .....
4.Mount and shoot into the lead ( no riding the bird)

It works for me on most all targets that are in the air. High Birds, , Quartering and Crossers. Now if I could learn to hit the Wabbit and that nasty Teal..... :wink:

Interesting that you mention wabbits. Consider the contour of the ground. I had a lesson with DR last Saturday, and that exact thing was part of the lesson. Some rabbits are actually rising, or falling, targets.

And some just bounce at the most impractical moment.....................

Ain't that the truth. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:48 pm
Posts: 331
It seems Mr Husthwaite is not as knowledgeable as others? JacksBack and this guy

Quote:
MMS is often mistakenly to said to use maintained lead, it may, but all the methods can be used in move mount shoot. Not just maintained lead.


Try reading the whole post


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:18 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:00 am
Posts: 2067
Birdhunter 39 ,
What Husthwaite video do you refer to please?
Nothing too wrong with MMS , Bidwell & Woolley have won plenty without having to revert to 'mark your own' .


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:30 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1320
I’ll dig it up and post a link.

Edit---found it.


https://youtu.be/91YEbthzZzU


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 Post subject: Re: What is move mount shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:24 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2310
Location: Attica, Mi
I look at things a little differently. Bidwell is more or less teaching a method of how to mount the gun if shooting gun down. Nothing more. Husthwaite is teaching a method of how to break the bird, pull away, not how to mount the gun. I see in the video his student is shooting gun up, so nothing Bidwell has to say would apply to what's happening in the video. In Bidwells first video his student ask about leads. All Bidwell says is " you'll know when to pull the trigger." Nothing about pull away, maintain, or swing through. In his second video he says to not shoot too fast after the gun hits your cheek, but delay the shot long enough to make sure of your lead. If you want a good video get Pat Lieske's . He teaches the less angle the bird is, the less the gun moves to mount. Also teaches how to read the speed of the target. A very good video by a top shooter.



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