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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:37 am 
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Also , for a reasonable price , a couple of DeWalt elec battery powered fans to help w/ the heat.

Why do "we" need to help the new low class people (Sorry , I meant the people of plenty of class , just not as much as I have, wait , that still sounds rude, so the people in the early alphabet classes). Why can't they help themselves? They should sign up for Big Blasts and pay the $$$. They should get their butts handed to them and see how hard SC's really is and not cry like a little baby that it is too hard.

Then they should commit to themselves that they will practice 500 targets before every tournament so they'll have an iota of a chance. Otherwise , registered is not for them.

Or we could form a new class where "You can win w/out practicing"......right?

Jeez louise.



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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:59 am 
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sera wrote:
Also , for a reasonable price , a couple of DeWalt elec battery powered fans to help w/ the heat.

Why do "we" need to help the new low class people (Sorry , I meant the people of plenty of class , just not as much as I have, wait , that still sounds rude, so the people in the early alphabet classes). Why can't they help themselves? They should sign up for Big Blasts and pay the $$$. They should get their butts handed to them and see how hard SC's really is and not cry like a little baby that it is too hard.

Then they should commit to themselves that they will practice 500 targets before every tournament so they'll have an iota of a chance. Otherwise , registered is not for them.

Or we could form a new class where "You can win w/out practicing"......right?

Jeez louise.


Relax, Sera. No one is going to take your Master Class from you. No new shooters, dead sport. The average age of Master class at most local shoots is dirt. Shooting tournaments should be fun. That doesn't mean not challenging. Practice does make perfect, but in the punch system participation and money spent is what really counts. I know several A class shooters that couldn't hit a bull in the butt at 10 yards. Go to enough shoots and you get lucky and get some punches. Probably won't get to Master, but check the scores in AA through B at most events and they are getting beat by D class shooters.

I personally don't think changing the current system will do any good. What does help is a welcoming and inviting attitude. Telling less committed shooters how lazy and cheap they are doesn't.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:07 am 
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:lol: Yea those grumpy old men don't help much.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:12 am 
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lt0026 wrote:
:lol: Yea those grumpy old men don't help much.


I meant to add that Master class shooters do carry the largest portion of money spent on registered target tournaments and all the clubs that run them are grateful for the support.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:12 am 
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draw--I am very relaxed and just musing about what all this stuff boils down to.

I see a huge disconnect between what clubs do and how that effects NSCA. And no matter what NSCA does , the clubs are going to do what they need to do to stay open or they will go out of business and sorry for them. BUT they can't blame NSCA for this.

There are clubs that get it (like Brett's) and they will do "new" things to get more shooters to come pay to play.Support your local clubs , tell them what you want , and do not expect NSCA to be the magic bean.

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:13 am 
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sera wrote:
draw--I am very relaxed and just musing about what all this stuff boils down to.

I see a huge disconnect between what clubs do and how that effects NSCA. And no matter what NSCA does , the clubs are going to do what they need to do to stay open or they will go out of business and sorry for them. BUT they can't blame NSCA for this.

There are clubs that get it (like Brett's) and they will do "new" things to get more shooters to come pay to play.Support your local clubs , tell them what you want , and do not expect NSCA to be the magic bean.


I totally agree with that.
{hs#


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:27 am 
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Shooting in the UK appears to be gaining in popularity, in both non competitive and tournament numbers.

We can probably learn something from their experiences.

Yes, I know our country is larger


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:24 pm 
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perdiz--the UK has always had 50% more registered shooters than the USA.

BUT--they argue about their rules as much as the posters here. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:48 pm 
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Would the discrepancy hold up if one were to adjust for population size between the UK and US and consider the shooting sports in general, not just clay target games?

I've no idea, could be an interesting comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:03 pm 
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mwr01 wrote:
Would the discrepancy hold up if one were to adjust for population size between the UK and US and consider the shooting sports in general, not just clay target games?

I've no idea, could be an interesting comparison.

Might also be that UK firearms laws tie ownership to membership and participation in shooting competitions?


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:53 pm 
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It's nothing to do with the laws. I don't need to give a reason to own standard shotguns and I can own as many as I want, pumps and semis included.

perdizman wrote:
Shooting in the UK appears to be gaining in popularity, in both non competitive and tournament numbers.
Participation here is increasing although it's mostly the same people simple shooting more targets. We have a lot of shooting choices and over recent years the numbers of weekday reg shoots have been increasing. These are generally well attended because there's seemingly no shortage of people with the spare time and a fairly high disposable income, hence lots of older folks. Some weeks in southern England it's possible to shoot Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and 1 or maybe 2 on Sunday - and I know people who do exactly that. A guy I know shot 13 reg competitions in July alone and a couple of days practice on top.

The CPSA is a membership funded 'not for profit' organisation and doesn't levy a tax on clays therefore they don't have a financial interest in increasing participation. The reality is that registered shooting isn't much more costly than practice but it's a lot better value for money.

I don't hear much arguing about the rules in fact the change to quarterly reclassification was universally applauded.

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:16 pm 
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My second point; in the UK they appear to have a mindset that allows different classes of shooters to have fun. Their tournaments attract all classes. Top shooters frequently have a supper final.

Game Fairs and County shoots and have a go attract new shooters. If NSCA membership is static and active tournament members are 8,000 or so,as Sera says , the UK approach may be better than ours.

We need a new way of approaching an old and completely dissed way of including and growing the shooting public.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:44 pm 
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drawdc wrote:
sera wrote:
Also , for a reasonable price , a couple of DeWalt elec battery powered fans to help w/ the heat.

Why do "we" need to help the new low class people (Sorry , I meant the people of plenty of class , just not as much as I have, wait , that still sounds rude, so the people in the early alphabet classes). Why can't they help themselves? They should sign up for Big Blasts and pay the $$$. They should get their butts handed to them and see how hard SC's really is and not cry like a little baby that it is too hard.

Then they should commit to themselves that they will practice 500 targets before every tournament so they'll have an iota of a chance. Otherwise , registered is not for them.

Or we could form a new class where "You can win w/out practicing"......right?

Jeez louise.


Relax, Sera. No one is going to take your Master Class from you. No new shooters, dead sport. The average age of Master class at most local shoots is dirt. Shooting tournaments should be fun. That doesn't mean not challenging. Practice does make perfect, but in the punch system participation and money spent is what really counts. I know several A class shooters that couldn't hit a bull in the butt at 10 yards. Go to enough shoots and you get lucky and get some punches. Probably won't get to Master, but check the scores in AA through B at most events and they are getting beat by D class shooters.

I personally don't think changing the current system will do any good. What does help is a welcoming and inviting attitude. Telling less committed shooters how lazy and cheap they are doesn't.


As are about 1/3 of the M class as well................ :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:53 pm 
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drawdc wrote:

Relax, Sera. No one is going to take your Master Class from you. No new shooters, dead sport. The average age of Master class at most local shoots is dirt. Shooting tournaments should be fun. That doesn't mean not challenging. Practice does make perfect, but in the punch system participation and money spent is what really counts. I know several A class shooters that couldn't hit a bull in the butt at 10 yards. Go to enough shoots and you get lucky and get some punches. Probably won't get to Master, but check the scores in AA through B at most events and they are getting beat by D class shooters.

I personally don't think changing the current system will do any good. What does help is a welcoming and inviting attitude. Telling less committed shooters how lazy and cheap they are doesn't.


That is an excellent post. Well said.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:45 am 
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Some final observations and then off to other things:

In the US, registered sporting is organized for high-volume (thus usually higher classed) shooters. The lower classed and usually lower volume shooters are an afterthought.

NSCA's only interest is in target tax. The current arrangement is performing adequately in that respect; so, the Association sees no reason to change anything.

The recreational guys, a few of whom are NSCA members, don't shoot registered because they simply don't care about it. Tweaking the system is unlikely to change that.

Many registered shooters who remain in the lower classes probably do so because they lack time, interest, or resources to develop their game and move up. Tweaking the system is unlikely to change that.

Finally, I think many of the long-term lower classed shooters remain active because they enjoy "the whole gemisch" - the targets, the people, and the atmosphere. The real draw in registered sporting has always been the people who play the game. Overwhelmingly, registered shooters are welcoming, friendly, and helpful. All in all a good crowd to hang with, that's why those of us perennially located in the bottom third keep coming back.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:00 am 
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mwr01,

I think you have it correct.

Not everyone that competes in NSCA registered events 'has to win'. I include myself in that statement.

I do enjoy shooting and the only person I am competing against is me. I am only trying to be a better shooter.

A Sporting Clays event is a very social gathering for some of us........and I don't care what the NSCA does, it won't change my level of participation, which until this year has been 1500 to 2000 targets a year.

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:31 am 
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mwr01 wrote:
Some final observations and then off to other things:

In the US, registered sporting is organized for high-volume (thus usually higher classed) shooters. The lower classed and usually lower volume shooters are an afterthought.

NSCA's only interest is in target tax. The current arrangement is performing adequately in that respect; so, the Association sees no reason to change anything.

The recreational guys, a few of whom are NSCA members, don't shoot registered because they simply don't care about it. Tweaking the system is unlikely to change that.

Many registered shooters who remain in the lower classes probably do so because they lack time, interest, or resources to develop their game and move up. Tweaking the system is unlikely to change that.

Finally, I think many of the long-term lower classed shooters remain active because they enjoy "the whole gemisch" - the targets, the people, and the atmosphere. The real draw in registered sporting has always been the people who play the game. Overwhelmingly, registered shooters are welcoming, friendly, and helpful. All in all a good crowd to hang with, that's why those of us perennially located in the bottom third keep coming back.


100 percent accurate. Every registered shooter continually assesses what value the game gives to them and whether to continue. Most of the people who stick with it are doing it for a reason other than the chance to win something, as there's really nothing to win -- maybe some concurrent money plus class and Lewis options that might pay for your entry and/or ammo at a Regional or similar event.

But you see people from all over the country making and renewing friendships, trying on targets that they probably don't see at home and in some cases, visiting a cool part of the country. Most of them are older with time and money on their hands.

They are the backbone of the sport's bigger events and if we start losing them, look out. Sporting will survive -- the vast majority of clayshooters never shoot a single target in formal competition -- but the registered game will teeter.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:38 am 
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Trickster wrote:
It's nothing to do with the laws. I don't need to give a reason to own standard shotguns and I can own as many as I want, pumps and semis included.

perdizman wrote:
Shooting in the UK appears to be gaining in popularity, in both non competitive and tournament numbers.
Participation here is increasing although it's mostly the same people simple shooting more targets. We have a lot of shooting choices and over recent years the numbers of weekday reg shoots have been increasing. These are generally well attended because there's seemingly no shortage of people with the spare time and a fairly high disposable income, hence lots of older folks. Some weeks in southern England it's possible to shoot Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and 1 or maybe 2 on Sunday - and I know people who do exactly that. A guy I know shot 13 reg competitions in July alone and a couple of days practice on top.

The CPSA is a membership funded 'not for profit' organisation and doesn't levy a tax on clays therefore they don't have a financial interest in increasing participation. The reality is that registered shooting isn't much more costly than practice but it's a lot better value for money.

I don't hear much arguing about the rules in fact the change to quarterly reclassification was universally applauded.

So, how does the CPSA "classify" shooters?

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Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:47 am 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
mwr01,

I think you have it correct.

Not everyone that competes in NSCA registered events 'has to win'. I include myself in that statement.

I do enjoy shooting and the only person I am competing against is me. I am only trying to be a better shooter.

A Sporting Clays event is a very social gathering for some of us........and I don't care what the NSCA does, it won't change my level of participation, which until this year has been 1500 to 2000 targets a year.


I agree , how else would a guy / gal learn the lingo / BS that's needed to converse with
these almighty Master Class wantabe's ? Plus in most shoots I attend I go for the Food
which has been great but lately I'm getting tired of Baloney sandwiches !
So lately I go because I like being where burnt powder is in the air and old jokes
seemed to come alive again from the shooters who aren't so serious that can smile !


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:25 am 
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I wonder...

How many here who regularly bash the NSCA are actually registered members?

How many here that complain about the NSCA punch and classification system are registered NSCA members AND actually shoot registered events?

How many here that complain about M class are registered NSCA members?

My guess the answer to all those questions is less than half...



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