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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:28 am 
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If that....




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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:33 am 
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birdshooter1 wrote:
Every registered shooter continually assesses what value the game gives to them and whether to continue.


I never was a big time Registered Shooter and stayed close to home so I maybe shot in 7 or 8 NSCA shoots per year. And this Spring decided what's the point :? :shock: So now I help out and work the NSCA shoots at my local Club(have 1 a month) and enjoy that MUCH more than competing :D And now can actually visit with my shooting Buds vs waving at each other on the course if we even saw each other.

They pay me in Targets on my card, or a flat of shells or cash depending on what I ask for on that day. So WIN-WIN for me :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
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Let the class warfare begin.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:47 am 
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lt0026 wrote:
Let the class warfare begin.


I'm now pretty certain that's exactly what's it's been about all along...

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When the mind is right, the body will find a way...


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:51 am 
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It ain't about master. Any ranking system that doesn't take into account poor performance is a non starter. It's all about $$ and giving people incentive to shoot. You have good and poor shooters in all the classes.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:52 am 
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JacksBack wrote:
lt0026 wrote:
Let the class warfare begin.


I'm now pretty certain that's exactly what's it's been about all along...


Class warfare, or class envy:-). Always comes back, doesn’t it?


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:50 pm
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JacksBack wrote:
I wonder...

How many here who regularly bash the NSCA are actually registered members?

How many here that complain about the NSCA punch and classification system are registered NSCA members AND actually shoot registered events?

How many here that complain about M class are registered NSCA members?

My guess the answer to all those questions is less than half...


Speaking as a relatively new registered shooter, I find the punch system to be pretty adequate. As stated, it does accomplish the NSCA's goal of acquiring revenue via the target tax. I've only been shooting for less than 2 years, only have appx 3500 targets and am about to punch into B class.

I have not illusions about making Master, but I do enjoy the challenge of increasing my skills and competing for the next class.

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:33 am 
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No organization can survive without $$$.

No system is perfect.

What we have works pretty well; but there are certainly a few tweaks that could be made to improve it.

Instead of bitching here, it's probably more productive to make constructive suggestions directly to the NSCA EC board -- but of course you need to be a member of the NSCA to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:06 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
So, how does the CPSA "classify" shooters?
It's an adjusted average system therefore purely based on performance. C is the lowest class and above C all the classes have thresholds. It doesn't matter if you shoot 10 comps per year or 50 your scores are all assessed under the same mechanism.

Any classification system can be 'gamed' but the overwhelming majority of competitors are honest and are in the right class. There are the upwardly mobile movers of course, on their way to the next class but of course it gets progressively harder as you move up.

In practice, every registered shoot is really 4 shoots with each class competing for honours against those of roughly similar ability and mostly with a small cash prize available. The winner of say B class might only win £40 but it's something to take away and a nice reminder that he/she beat all comers in B class on that day.

I've been reading about the punch system for years and it obviously works well for some and equally obviously doesn't really work very well for the rest. The CPSA system is perhaps more balanced and not weighted to favour those with more resources of time and funds.

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:16 pm 
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Thanks for that explanation! Seems you folks have it going properly.

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:00 pm 
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The NSCA had it going in the right direction with the NPA system. That didn't last long when the inflated ego's got upset and made threats to go home. https://www.multibriefs.com/briefs/nssa ... 020811.pdf

And Trickster does the CPSA allow shooters, friends and relatives to keep score for themselves?


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:08 pm 
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lt0026 wrote:
The NSCA had it going in the right direction with the NPA system. That didn't last long when the inflated ego's got upset and made threats to go home. https://www.multibriefs.com/briefs/nssa ... 020811.pdf

And Trickster does the CPSA allow shooters, friends and relatives to keep score for themselves?


Are you looking through your green colored glasses again?


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:14 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
Thanks for that explanation! Seems you folks have it going properly.
One thing to point out is that we don't have a lot of upmarket clubs with a nice clubhouse & catering along with all the trimmings like on site gun shop, level parking and well manicured grounds. Registered shooting isn't where those places make their money, the daily pay and play shooters along with coaching fees, open days, shop sales etc are what pay the bills. Most monthly shoots are held at comparatively rough and ready places with limited catering and often with no dry pathways or hard areas for parking. Winter often means boots to cross fields or land that was grass yesterday but pretty sticky on shoot day. These places with minimal overheads can make money from registered comps. On Sunday for example, a monthly shoot 40 or so miles from me had an entry of 156 registered and a few non reg shooters and with just a one time cost of about 15 staff the gross profit is significant. That's basically the model for most and it keeps costs reasonable and most shooters seem happy as long as the targets are good.

lt0026 wrote:
And Trickster does the CPSA allow shooters, friends and relatives to keep score for themselves?
No.

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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:18 pm 
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Thanks. I've seen video's of your local shoots and every station or squad has a trapper/scorer. Just wanted to make sure it was the norm. The video's on English Sporting Clay's are great. The clubs look just fine. And no speeding Gran Prix of golf carts. And the shooters seem to be really well attired.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:24 pm 
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sera wrote:
Also , for a reasonable price , a couple of DeWalt elec battery powered fans to help w/ the heat.

Why do "we" need to help the new low class people (Sorry , I meant the people of plenty of class , just not as much as I have, wait , that still sounds rude, so the people in the early alphabet classes). Why can't they help themselves? They should sign up for Big Blasts and pay the $$$. They should get their butts handed to them and see how hard SC's really is and not cry like a little baby that it is too hard.

Then they should commit to themselves that they will practice 500 targets before every tournament so they'll have an iota of a chance. Otherwise , registered is not for them.

Or we could form a new class where "You can win w/out practicing"......right?

Jeez louise.
^^^^^^^^^^ This. Spot on.

My golf cart bill from Dever was $608 for 5 days this year at Nationals. I don’t have to get one, but I want one and there’s no crying about it. -That’s just the way it is and if you don’t like it, then stay home.

Going to a big event has never been cheap but I consider the education learned from it worth twice the price.

Experience that cannot be had any other way than the hard way:
Show up. Shoot. Learn. Regroup. Practice. Shoot again. What’s wrong? What’s right? Learn more. Repeat. Learn to be process driven, not outcome driven.

Crybabies usually have about a 4 year life span in shooting sports. They make it to their Senior shooting year and realize they’ve been trying to quit the whole time.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:37 pm 
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The practice......REAL practice. Hard practice, is what most don’t understand is the only real secret.

Tournament day is payoff day. You find out what you need to go work on. Many shooters don’t want to hear that, but that’s the wY it is to be good at anything.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:38 pm 
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Practice? Hell you say. Sounds like work. Heretic....

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NSCA #617422

When the mind is right, the body will find a way...


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:50 pm 
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I know, I know......what was I thinking?;-)


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:02 am
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The conversation was about the method CPSA uses to classify shooters and, tangentially, does CPSA permit SYO. Trickster responded concisely to both questions. Abruptly, the topic changed to "you won't get better if you don't work at it and practice." That is certainly true, but how did we get there from CPSA classification?

Thread drift happens, but that was a sudden change of direction, even for SGW. Clearly, I missed critical detail.


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 Post subject: Re: what can we do to support lower class registered shooter
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:42 am 
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I do think some shooters are run off by what they see at some of these SYO shoots. People don't wish to pay $75/80 per hundred to be cheated. Using an average system like the CPSA doesn't allow for ignoring current poor performance.




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